Re: [Blind-sysadmins] question for the managers ...

If you don't have a degree, how are you going to distinguish yourself from that guy who helped his grandma get on AOL?

Lol. That guy helping his grandmother has: * shown initiative * demonstrated understanding of customer service * helped non-technical users solve technical problems The person who just has a degree has: * drunk beer * screwed around * spent a lot of someone else's money Which one is going to help the business more? On Thursday, 15 October 2015, 2:06 pm -0500, John G Heim wrote:

Scott, you're talking about higher level jobs. You already have experience. No one would dispute that experience is more important than a degree after a certain level.

I'm not going entirely by my own experience here. As President of IAVIT, I've talked to many HR people and IT managers about this. There are a gazillion people out there calling themselves information technologists. Every guy who ever helped his grandma get on AOL considers himself an IT guy. If you don't have a degree, how are you going to distinguish yourself from that guy who helped his grandma get on AOL? Sure, another way is to be a genius. Show them how you once built a mnemonic circuit using stone knives and bearskins. But, first of all, now you're counting on the guy who is interviewing you to understand the difference. Second, suppose you're not a genius? Suppose you're just above average?

Why do you think so many job advertizements say something like, "Bachelors in Comp Sci or related field or relevant work experience required"? That basic phrasing should be familiar to anyone who has read a lot of want ads. You can over come it with enough experience but as I'm sure we all know, the problem is getting that experience in the first place. This problem is so familiar to people searching for jobs that places like ITT Tech and University Of Phoenix feature it in their ads. "They want experience but how can I get experience if I don't have a job?"

A degree is never completely irrelevant. As I said, some IT managers consider a degree a sign of a certain level of seriousness. By your second or third job, it probably won't matter but it might. Plus, there are some jobs, like those at universities, where having a degree is absolutely required. Why would you eliminate an entire sector of the job market if you don't have to? Especially since jobs in education are some of the best in the entire IT sector. They are usually affirmative action employers.

On 10/15/2015 12:50 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

...

John, that’s interesting, I’ve found the absolute opposite when it comes to education. My experience more mirrors that of Will where a college education is almost a hinderance. I’ve seen people with Harvard degrees get laughed at.

I suppose it depends on the job. I can see why universities would demand such a thing. I don’t even have an education field on my resume although I do have a certs section. Nobody has asked me in 10 years why I don’t have a college on my resume.

Interesting how these things Vary.

...

On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:56 AM, John G Heim wrote:

Okay, first, I'll talk about degrees versus certifications. As President of the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists, the difference being blind makes is something I've studied a great deal. More on that later in this message.

If you ask about degrees versus certifications, you're kind of setting up a false dichotomy. The obvious answer is that it is best to have both. So the real question is how difficult is it to overcome not having a college degree? The answer is that it depends. A person with a Ph.D in Math will get several job offers, sight unseen. On the other hand, there are a lot of jobs where you won't even be considered if you don't have a degree. At many universities, you simply don't qualify for many jobs unless you have a degree. That tends to trickle down to employers in areas where there are a lot of universities (like Massachusetts). I talked to an HR manager here in Madison, Wisconsin, and she said that she simply tosses (deletes) any resumes that don't show a college degree. She can't interview everybody and it's an easy way to whittle down the field. The same thing can be true for some certifications. You won't even be considered for some jobs in computer security, for example, witho u t a CISSP.

Now, regarding being blind ... My opinion is that blindness is easily the #1 factor that employers consider when making a hiring decision. First of all, there are some legitimate reasons for not hiring a blind person. We do have trouble configuring a BIOS, after all. But far more important is that employers simply don't understand the capabilities of blind technologists. Many managers assume, for example, that a blind technologist wouldn't be able to replace a hard drive. If it's not a hard drive, it's another of the million things they could think of that they'd assume we can't do. In my experience, there is no limit to the things sighted people can't conceive of doing without vision. Even managers with the best of intentions are vulnerable to this problem. I've met dozens of extremely kind, open minded managers who think they're not discriminating, it's just that a blind person can't do the job.

Another problem is that hiring is almost always about making a personal connection with the interviewer. Managers will overlook huge flaws in a person's qualifications if they like him. The most important thing in an interview is getting the interviewer to like you and a blind person is at a disadvantage there. First of all, some people are uncomfortable around the disabled. Secondly, a big part of hitting it off with someone is picking up on the visual clues they are giving. Did the interviewer smile or scowl when you made that little joke? Finally, a lot of blind people have lead somewhat sheltered lives and just don't have the social skills they need.

Of course, being blind only puts you at a disadvantage and only with some employers. It's not impossible to find a job, it's just harder. And how much harder it is depends on a lot of things. How good is your resume? How good are your social skills? A lot of luck is involved for anyone looking for a job and you might have to work a little harder to improve your odds if you are blind.

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