Thank you for this information. My user just discovered what seems to have caused our problem. A Windows 10 surface pro was having the same JAWS issue. He went into programs and features removing the entire suite of programs pertaining to the docking station he used which is a Plugable 3900. Same one he use on his laptop. This resolved the issue on his Surface Pro. Unfortunately, by the time he discovered that the docking software was the cause, probably related to the video driver, he begun to restore his laptop. Don't know if this is the culprit for all of you, but something to check. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Glen Gordon Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 1:50 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows 10 JAWS issue Hi, All, Let me start out by saying that I follow the activity in this group and am very impressed with the technical know-how and willingness to share info amongst group members. I think I can offer some insight on this issue and at the same time am hoping that those of you experiencing the problem can send me icacls output so we can refine what JAWS does. Starting with Windows 8.1 and continuing with Windows 10, Modern/Universal apps, into which category the start menu falls, run in a restricted security context. They are only able to read the contents of files/directories for which rights are explicitly granted to "ALL APPLICATION PACKAGES." In other words, they aren't governed by entries for "All Users." This matters because JAWS has a component called Jhook that needs to be injected into the Start Menu process in order to read the Start Menu. Without these rights on the directory/files, the start menu process can't load Jhook.dll. On clean Windows 10 machines, newly created directories inside of Program Files inherit read/execute permissions for "ALL APPLICATION PACKAGES" but directories that already exist during an upgrade from Windows 7 do not. So JAWS, when it installs, now unconditionally sets read/execute for this SID on the JAWS-version directory and it's children, but not for its parent directories. Our test revealed that this was enough to make the start menu talk on machines upgrading from Windows 7, but we continue to get sporadic reports that it was not. This is handled more robustly in JAWS 17 onwards than in JAWS 16. For those of you having the problem would you confirm that these are Windows 7 upgraded machines? Also, would you send me off-list the output of Icacls " C:\Program Files\Freedom Scientific" /t /c This will show all of the security entries for the Freedom Scientific tree, continuing if errors are encountered. You should be able to resolve this by adding the Read/Execute right for "All Application Packages" on the Freedom Scientific Directory and have it be inherited for all objects and containers. We very much want to improve the upgrade experience for people and will adapt our installers as we gain more understanding of why what we're now doing isn't always adequate. Thanks for your help. --Glen Glen Gordon VFO | Vice President & Chief Technology Officer www.vfo-group.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:57 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows 10 JAWS issue Hi Troy, My wife's situation was a fresh insall in August and it has been doing this ever since. I am guessing that FS hasn't been able to duplicate it. It definetly left me speechless. Hopefully someone can shead some more light here. Kind Regards, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Troy Hergert Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 11:28 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows 10 JAWS issue Thanks Billy, Yes the laptop has been attached to our AD domain. There are a good 10 GPOs running for printer installation, drive maps, power settings and a few other things which haven't changed in a year. Computer has been on a domain for months, but issue started about last 10 days. In the process of again completely removing JAWS AND REINSTALLING. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:22 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows 10 JAWS issue Hi Troy, My wife's work computer does this. FS had no resolution either. They took it all the way up the chain at Freedom. I do know their AD setting have tightened on their network. So, can you share if this system is on an AD and has strict policies in place? Thanks Kindly, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Troy Hergert Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 11:19 AM To: Blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows 10 JAWS issue Has anyone encountered the issue that JAWS stops reading the start menu, the system notification tray and the Windows I settings? NVDA works properly but something changed possibly in a Windows 10 update to cause this? Freedom Scientific suggested reinstalling JAWS and trying a new profile, but hasn't worked. Thought I ask if anyone else has seen this in Windows 10. 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