John, I really like your option 2. I know I’ve tried to minimize the effect of my blindness when dealing with interviewers and tend to word it like “we do the same things with the same results it’s just how we get there is a little different”. Or something like that. Meaning I might use a screen reader, or count the steps to the bathroom, or yada yada yada but the end result is what you’re looking for. Some others were asking in parallel to this how do you illustrate that you can put ends on cables or run wiring etc. My answer to that is maybe don’t do that kind of job. My rolls have been more classical engineering where we write procedures and execute plans and have mostly Unionized cable workers do the physical portion of the work. That’s how things are done many times in large telephone companies, sited or otherwise. Unions won’t let non union engineers touch physical plant and so forth. I do like your turning blindness in to a positive method though. The next time I interview I might try to do that more. That sounds pretty effective. On May 22, 2014, at 11:24 AM, John Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
Right but I've been trying to make it clear that I am primarily addressing those of us who's resumes may be a little less impressive than yours would have been. Right now, just about anywhere in the country, there are probably going to be dozens of applicants for every entry level job in IT. That's a huge problem if besides not having a great deal of experience, you are also blind. I have little doubt that it's possible for even a blind person to get the first job they apply for straight out of tech school. But I think the real question is what to tell people who simply haven't been that lucky. You can't say, well, go out and get 10 years of experience running an ISP and then start sending out resumes. It's not even realistic to tell most people to go back to school and get a BS in Comp Sci.
What we are trying to figure out is what to tell someone who says I have an associate degree in networking and official Microsoft certification is whatever (sorry, I know nothing about Microsoft certifications). I've sent out 137 resumes, gone to 26 interviews, and haven't had any luck? The last interview I was at, the interviewer showed me a stack of resumes 2 inches thick and asked me why he should hire me instead of any of the other 93 applicants. Any advice?
Unsaid in the above paragraph is the reality that not only do you have to make your resume stand out above the other 92, you have to make it stand out enough so that the IT manager will overlook his reservations about hiring a blind person. For some managers, that will be easy. For others, not so much.
My answer is two fold: 1. Understand that getting that job is in large part simply a matter of luck. Do everything you can to improve your chances. If you can go back to school, do it. Get whatever certifications you can. Broaden your experience by studying the latest and greatest technology on your own time. And, above all, keep trying. 2. Turn your blindness into a asset as much as you can. Employers love initiative. They love "go getters". Show them that that is who you are. I am going to say that there doesn't exist a blind person in IT who isn't a go getter. Some more than others but all of us are probably above average. Play that up.
I have to say my experience most closely matches yours. John brings up very good points but my experiences haven’t been nearly as difficult as others seem to have had. At one point during the dot com bubble in 2000 I sent out 4 resumes to companies and ended up getting 11 offers.:) Things were so tight then that people were poaching resumes from anywhere they could find them. One point that you made in a previous message that’s important is be presentable. I’m sure everyone on this list knows this but it’s hugely important. Have a sited person make sure that everything matches, no dirt on the clothing (or food on the shirt, that’s my tricky one lol). Know the market you’re going for, if you’re meeting with engineers and propeller heads then don’t wear a suit, if you’re meeting with Wall Street bankers then throw on the Brooks Brothers suit and go for it. Obvious I know but worth repeating. . On May 21, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Lee, Amanda <alee@nib.org> wrote:
I have never disclosed that I was blind prior to an interview. I've even walked in off the street to a job fair held by a company seeking professionals and became employed by that company. Rarely wil you be rejected. As I said, their main concern is can you perform and can you do the job.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John Heim Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:40 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues
I suspect you can get more interviews by not disclosing that you are blind but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I went to an interview once and when the woman who was going to interview me saw that I was blind, she at first refused to go ahead with the interview. I talked her into it but it was clear from the start that I had no chance. It was just a big waste of time. I was glad I had taken the bus to the interview because if I had taken a cab, it would have been money thrown away for nothing.
On the other hand, getting hired is just so much BS. It's so much a random process. I worked for a company where the manager threw away any resume that wasn't printed with black ink on white paper. Send him a cream colored resume and it went immediately into the trash. But a manager will over look almost anything if they just like you enough. Maybe that works in favor of not disclosing that you are blind. Maybe you get that one interview and just happen to hit it off with the person doing the hiring. But I think you need to get them thinking of hiring a blind person in advance. Pique their interest.
Employers love initiative. I think the stuff we blind people do every day, like crossing streets, seems like a remarkable demonstration of initiative to your typical sighted person. My opinion is that you should play that stuff up. Not only is it fair, it's true. I think mostblind people have no idea how often sighted people slide by in life. They don't care about their jobs and they are not particularly good at them. But they show up every day and they get paid. It almost never works out like that for blind people. The truth is that the people on this list do have more guts and more initiative than the average worker. We wouldn't be here otherwise.
On 05/21/14 11:59, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
I agree with you on point 1 and 2, however, I haven't really managed to successfully complete an interview solely on my own merit, as I knew people before coming into this current job, and haven't been able to find anything since. I always used to make a point of telling people about my visual impairment in a letter before as part of the application process, but found I got more interviews when I didn't do this. I also give people the opportunity to ask questions about my impairment.
Wishing you all the best, Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 21 May 2014 17:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues
Hi there, I think this is ok and on topic. I know it's been discussed before and there have been specific discussions and even groups formed to cover accessibility and it's impact on the work place.
To answer your questions, there are no clear cut answers but here's what my experience has been and what has worked for me. 1. I really don't disclose my vision status during the interview process until the in person happens and then obviously everyone figures it out really rapidly. By that point hopefully your resume stands for itself and that helps to ease the situation. In some cases recruiters who I have worked for before are familiar with my situation and may on their own prep the possible client of the situation ahead of time. This has worked out well for me and the issue can be dealt with in a way that the recruiter has experience with. (they know their customer)
2. As for the discussing how you work I like to give the client a chance to ask questions in this area. I volunteer this though since I'm not sure legally how much they can ask about your disability. I find by bringing it up during the interview process it eases concerns. Maybe bring your laptop with you and demonstrate a screen reader and how it helps you work etc.
3. Finding people open to working with a blind engineer is tricky. I don't know of a stock way of answering that. I'd say that geography place a part in this. Places like San Francisco or New England might be tending towards more integration than say Stillwater Oklahoma. This is of course a gross generalization though and you can find exceptions on either side. One thing I will say is the more work I successfully complete the easier this process gets. Now that I have over 20 years experience the clients tend to see this first and foremost and blindness is way down the list of things they worry about. I could be lucky though. I find though that searching for work in places where there are a concentrated amount of blind people can be easier. Not sure if that helps at all but that's been my experience.
Thanks Scott
On May 21, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Jad Wauthier <jtwauthier@gmail.com> wrote:
I sincerely apologize if this is an inappropriate topic for this list. Does anyone know of any resources like forums, other mailing lists, etc which deal with issues regarding blindness and employment in tech industries? I am a developer, and I have always found it difficult to find employment in spite of my ability to demonstrate my skill sets.
Some of the questions I am looking for answers to are:
1. When is the ideal time to disclose my visual limitations 2. How best to approach the topic of how I work 3. How to find tech companies that are comfortable working with people with a different approach to interfacing with their technologies
I realize that some questions don't have clear cut answers. I'm really looking for various view points and possibly something that might prove helpful in my current job search. I've had so many close calls. I would appreciate any insight anyone could offer. You can contact me directly if you feel comfortable doing so.
Thanks.
Jad
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