I must add a couple of things to that judgmental post. I'm an introvert who finds socializing hard. I don't exercise enough, and I absolutely detest dressing up in a suit for a wedding or funeral. But you know, until we're the majority and setting our own social morays up, we have to play the game. The phrase "fake it until you make it" comes to mind. (grin) At 01:18 PM 5/22/2014, you wrote:
Amanda, you make excelent points about appearance, how we interact socially, etc. Often, this doesn't come up in these employment discussions, the elephant in the room as it were. We can't make eye contact, but we can at least not talk to the floor between our feet, face in the general direction of whoever we are speaking to, try to dress for whatever is expected of employees at that particular workplace, be well groomed etc. It's simple stuff like try not to smell bad, comb your hair, etc. LOL
Sorry, but if you're unshaven, wearing ripped jeans and a baggy sweatshirt, with unkempt greasy hair, and if you direct your voice into the karpet while rocking back and forth vigorously, you're probably ruining the chances of any other blind folks applying at that workplace. Please don't do that. Sorry to heap on the pressure, but if you're the first blind person they've interacted with for more than a few seconds, you're helping define their idea of what blind folks are like, what we can or cannot do etc. I realize it's incredibly unfair to lump us all together as a "type" of person, but people probably think "oh they're all like that", no matter how wrong that kind of thinking actually is.
Just remember they probably wouldn't hire a sighted person who didn't take care of themselves, or seem interested in the conversation either.
At 12:57 PM 5/22/2014, you wrote:
Appearance does matter. I'm not saying that you have to be a physically 'beautiful' person. But if you desire to enable others to become more comfortable with the fact that you are different from them, then you, no matter how much you might dislike conformance, need to present yourself accordingly. Yes, I've already said these things but I have met blind or legally blind persons who expect others to accept their inappropriate dress and/or habbits. As for addressing those issues a manager may have with how they perceive a person who is blind or legally blind, I do often tell them that it is ok with me if they want to ask me more specific questions. This hass always been an ice-breaker and has resulted in positive dialogue. I've taken tests which were presented verbally. The issue of interfacing a screen reader with an application or site does pose some challenges. Most corporate environments do support Microsoft Office 2010 or higher and they could download Window-Eyes for Of
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues
Being serious but here I was thinking that the hot women had the upper hand. Seriously! In a previous job I worked in a network planning and delivery group. When ever we went over budget we had the smokin hot Mexican girl hit up the finance team for more money. (Always worked) Now granted she was extremely qualified, definitely in the top end of the intelligence scale and a superior worker but she had the benefit of the looks to go with it. (some have all the luck) So I guess we capitalized on the thing you're pointing out. I also can back up your point by saying at one point I lost over 100 LBS and things really did seem to be easier. I guess it's thought of as some sort of discipline / sign of self control or something. There are so many aspects of life this is true though not just professional. I have a driver who is middle eastern so has brown skin and looks Mexican. Unless I'm with him he's always getting pulled over for driving while brown. California was so bad I i
On May 22, 2014, at 11:31 AM, John Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
Well, yeah. Reality bites.
It's just a sad fact of life. Tall, thin, white males have an easier time finding jobs than those who don't fit those characteristics. This is true independent of other factors like education, experience, etc. There are dozens of studies that confirm this. In fact, there are studies that show that even African-Americans are more likely to hire a white guy than a black guy. Weird, I know, but that's the human race for you.
So if my name is Leroy Jones, I way 300 lbs and thick glasses I'm really screwed?
:)
On May 21, 2014, at 5:00 PM, John Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
Well, sure, an employer's main concern is whether you can do the job. But there are a lot of misconceptions on what a blind person can and cannot do. Some percentage of employers are going to assume, incorrectly, that a blind person can't manage a help desk, for example. It's impossible to say what percentage of employers that is but from what I've heard on this list and others, the percentage is substantial.
There have been studies that have shown that even something as innocent as having an African-American first name on your resume makes it less likely for you to be called for an interview. Other studies have shown that being over weight makes it far more difficult to get a job. So Being blind has to have some effect. Even something as simple as establishing a rapore with the interviewer is going to be harder for a blind person because it is harder to make eye contact and some people are just uncomfortable around the disabled.
On 05/21/14 15:07, Lee, Amanda wrote:
I have never disclosed that I was blind prior to an interview. I've even walked in off the street to a job fair held by a company seeking professionals and became employed by that company. Rarely wil you be rejected. As I said, their main concern is can you perform and can you do the job.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John Heim Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:40 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues
I suspect you can get more interviews by not disclosing that you are blind but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I went to an interview once and when the woman who was going to interview me saw that I was blind, she at first refused to go ahead with the interview. I talked her into it but it was clear from the start
On the other hand, getting hired is just so much BS. It's so
much a random process. I worked for a company where the manager
Maybe that works in favor of not disclosing that you are blind. Maybe you get that one interview and just happen to hit it off with the person doing the hiring. But I think you need to get
Employers love initiative. I think the stuff we blind people
do every day, like crossing streets, seems like a remarkable demonstration of initiative to your typical sighted person. My opinion is that you should play that stuff up. Not only is it fair, it's true. I think mostblind people have no idea how often sighted people slide by in life.
They don't care about their jobs and they are not
We wouldn't be here otherwise.
On 05/21/14 11:59, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Hi, > > I agree with you on point 1 and 2, however, I haven't really managed to successfully complete an interview solely on my own merit, as I knew people before coming into this current job, and haven't been able to find anything since. I always used to make a
> > Wishing you all the best, > Andrew. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Blind-sysadmins > [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf > Of Scott Granados > Sent: 21 May 2014 17:56 > To: Blind sysadmins list > Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues > > Hi there, I think this is ok and on topic. I know it's been discussed before and there have been specific discussions and even groups formed to cover accessibility and it's impact on the work place. > > To answer your questions, there are no clear cut answers but here's what my experience has been and what has worked for me. > 1. I really don't disclose my vision status during the interview > process until the in person happens and then obviously everyone > figures it out really rapidly. By that point hopefully your resume > stands for itself and that helps to ease the situation. In some > cases recruiters who I have worked for before are familiar with my > situation and may on their own prep the possible client of the > situation ahead of time. This has worked out well for me and the > issue can be dealt with in a way that the recruiter has experience > with. (they know their customer) > > 2. As for the discussing how you work I like to give the client a chance to ask questions in this area. I volunteer this
> > 3. Finding people open to working with a blind engineer is
> > Thanks > Scott > > > > On May 21, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Jad Wauthier <jtwauthier@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I sincerely apologize if this is an inappropriate topic for
On 05/22/14 09:16, Scott Granados wrote: that I had no chance. It was just a big waste of time. I was glad I had taken the bus to the interview because if I had taken a cab, it would have been money thrown away for nothing. threw away any resume that wasn't printed with black ink on white paper. Send him a cream colored resume and it went immediately into the trash. But a manager will over look almost anything if they just like you enough. them thinking of hiring a blind person in advance. Pique their interest. particularly good at them. But they show up every day and they get paid. It almost never works out like that for blind people. The truth is that the people on this list do have more guts and more initiative than the average worker. point of telling people about my visual impairment in a letter before as part of the application process, but found I got more interviews when I didn't do this. I also give people the opportunity to ask questions about my impairment. though since I'm not sure legally how much they can ask about your disability. I find by bringing it up during the interview process it eases concerns. Maybe bring your laptop with you and demonstrate a screen reader and how it helps you work etc. tricky. I don't know of a stock way of answering that. I'd say that geography place a part in this. Places like San Francisco or New England might be tending towards more integration than say Stillwater Oklahoma. This is of course a gross generalization though and you can find exceptions on either side. One thing I will say is the more work I successfully complete the easier this process gets. Now that I have over 20 years experience the clients tend to see this first and foremost and blindness is way down the list of things they worry about. I could be lucky though. I find though that searching for work in places where there are a concentrated amount of blind people can be easier. Not sure if that helps at all but that's been my experience. this list.
>> Does anyone know of any resources like forums, other mailing >> lists, etc which deal with issues regarding blindness and >> employment in tech industries? I am a developer, and I have >> always found it difficult to find employment in spite of my ability to demonstrate my skill sets. >> >> Some of the questions I am looking for answers to are: >> >> 1. When is the ideal time to disclose my visual limitations 2. >> How best to approach the topic of how I work 3. How to find tech >> companies that are comfortable working with people with a >> different approach to interfacing with their technologies >> >> I realize that some questions don't have clear cut answers. I'm >> really looking for various view points and possibly something >> that might prove helpful in my current job search. I've had so >> many close calls. I would appreciate any insight anyone could >> offer. You can contact me directly if you feel comfortable doing so. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jad >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list > Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list > Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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