John: Is the law you're talking about section 508? If so, I've seen that card played and it really doesn't work, for unexpected reasons. I once worked as a 508 compliance tester. We were testing an application from a company called Siebel that's now owned by Oracle, I don't think the application exists anymore. It was webbased, it was a web 2.0 application before its time. And it worked horribly with a screen reader, in that a blind person could not be anywhere near as effective as a sighted coworker. That said, the application was fully 508 compliant. Section 508 just isn't written well enough. Sure it covers the basics, but there's just an intangeble it doesn't cover. Unfortunately I really can't think of anything better. I do agree, however, that we need a lot more blind people out there testing these applications. I wonder though if there are enough computer literate blind people to test them all? Honestly, there are a lot of adaptive technology trainers and so called experts I really get scared to be around. Ryan ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John Heim [jheim@math.wisc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:59 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] any show stoppers I think you both have some good points. My department went heavily into VMWare about 5 years ago. I got stuck before I even managed to install esx on our first server. They had a serial console install in esx 3.0 but it brought up a splash screen on the main console and you had to click on the logo to get past it. This is during a serial console install. So I had to turn the installation over to a co-worker. Not to criticize my co-worker too much but he's not the kind of guy who would normally be your "go to" guy. When the clock strikes 4:30, he is gone. I can't blame him for that. But I'm not like that. I want to be the guy they look to when things get rough. I'll work evenings and weekends. I'll put my own time in studying the latest, greatest new technology. Even so, they took that VMWare job away from me and gave it to him because he can see. There is still plenty of work around here for me to do and I'm in no danger of losing my job. But this phenomena where blind people lose out on the part of the job dealing with new technology is so common, I have even coined a term for it. I call it getting backwatered. If you are a blind technologist and you haven't been backwatered at some point in your career, you should consider yourself extremely lucky. Personally, I don't intend to go down without a fight. So that's why I formed the International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. There doesn't seem to be enough people around who feel passionately enough about it to make a difference though. We are looking for people to deal with this very issue. We even have something of a plan. There is a law in the United States that says that government agencies cannot buy inaccessible software when an accessible alternative is available. And if the agency wants to buy inaccessible software, they have to provide justification for doing so. Technically, my department violated government regulations whne it bought VMWare. Of course, the law has practically no teeth as my own situation demonstrates. But, the law in combination with help from us might get VMWare to take action. We want to create a checklist for companies like VMWare to follow when working toward accessibility. The checklist would include things like designating someone to be responsible for accessibility and actively recruiting blind beta testers. So the idea is that we put pressure on companies to pay attention to accessibility because of the law and follow it up with the checklist on how to approach solving the problem. And then hope for the best. We'd also like to see the European Union adopt the same regulation about government agencies buying inaccessible software. You might say this is a lame plan. Pie in the sky. But if you've got a better plan, I'd like to hear it. Honestly, it may be futile but like I said, I don't intend to go down without a fight. -- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Shugart" <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:49 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] any show stoppers
Wow, that is negative. I do totally understand where it comes from, and I've had days I've felt like giving up myself, but I don't think its time for blind sysadmins to turn in our resignations yet. Personally if I were to look into the crystal ball I see our jobs becoming a lot more specialized than they are today. At least in the Windows world, perhaps the days of a blind person running the whole network themselves are over. I think specialization is still possible, for example becoming a VMWare expert and knowing that that and only that or a an SCCM expert and knowing that that and only that. That's not that uncommon out there. I don't know about VMWare, but a lot of SCCM people specialize in SCCM, and that's all they know. For accessibility reasons that might be easier for us. It doesn't make the software easier to manage, but it means that a scripting specialist can come in and script that one application. Is that a good approach, having someone come in and script things for us? No, but I think its going to be more common not less, for better or worse. And not just systems administration. Accesswise, we're loosing the battle sorry to say. I have no idea where Microsoft thinks they're going in accessibility, but they are missing the boat so badly I'm surprised they're not drownding. Just try the Narrator in Windows 8 and compare it to their claims to learn they're clueless. I don't hold the AT companies blameless though. I don't think they push hard enough, I don't think they move quick enough, and I think they are too quick to put out a fire rather than solve a longterm problem. Case in point, UIA's been around for many years now, and AT companies are now just starting to support it? If they'd had people playing with UIA right away when it came out and we spoke up then, perhaps Microsoft would have listened more. I mean, to be honest, MS is probably saying to themselves, "come on guys, UIA's been out for years. Where were you in 2006?" I'm still waiting to hear from our TAM on SCCM 2012. I don't think I'll get Microsoft to redo the UI for this even though I've complained to them about this for over a year and have public comments that SCCM 2012 will be perfectly accessible. Well perhaps I can get MS to pay for scripting? I don't know. But what else can I do? Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:15 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] any show stoppers
Seriously, being a blind system administrator is simply not worth the hassle, stress and constant arguements and debates with companies over the inaccessibility of their software. My advice? Don't bother.
Sorry to be so negative about it but John has hit the nale on the head here. ESXI is not very accessible. VSphere is ok when your using it for 4 hours a day and your use to the clunky interface with Jaws but no. it's really not worth it. If I had an option I'd be out of here. I absolutely love this job. I love the part of the country I'm working in and I love the people and the office. Mcafee, VMWare, Microsoft, Trend, Symantec and Dell are just some of the companies I've been in talks with to try to get more accessible solutions but they won't hear a thing I say. I work for a very large organization that has the ear of some very influencial people. The minister for disabilities in the Irish government has even been involved in some of these discussions but still, companies such as McAfee still see the need for accesssibility as a feature request therefore it has been given a very low priority. Meanwhile, I'm left with less and less accessible applications. VMWare are doing great things at the moment. They are going to single handidly cause a revolution in the tech industry and htis is going tos tart around June or July. I had the oppertunity to meat some people who are very high up in the company last Wednesday and I may as well have been telling them that I wanted their weight in gold because I'd say to them, that was more atainable than making sure their software was accessible. When this new software is out, I know their going to want it here. In fact, they already have a consultant who is looking at the alternatives in anticipation of the new software releases because management want to jump on it as soon as possible. However, the new software will create even more problems for me because of the systemic problem of no sound output in virtual machines and absolutely no way of independently installing or troubleshooting ESXI when infront of the server.
People will remember that I've always been willing and able to find solutions to problems like this but I think the time has come when there are now too many problems and not enough solutions. Things should be getting better but their not. Companies like Microsoft shout from the roof tops that UIA is the best thing since sliced bread then they release SCCM 2012 and it's based on UIA. What do you know. It's rubbish!
When Microsoft, the company who colaberated on making UIA cant get it right, how the hell can we expect any other company to?
Credit where credit is due. Freedom Scientific and Oracle have been very helpful but there is only so much they can do. at some point, software developers and companies need to take responsibility for the software that they are throwing out there.
Rant over.
Regards
Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu
Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie
From: "John Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Date: 09/04/2012 20:14 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] any show stoppers Sent by: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Esx and esxi do not support sound. In other words, you can't make a virtual machine with a sound card. There is no screen reader for esx or esxi. The
remote GUI interface has major accessibility problemms. And there is no talking or serial console install. I asked about an accessible install on
the VMWare web site and all the answers I got were lame. I ended up getting sighted assistance for the install. However, it may be possible for a blind person to do an esx/esxi install via the automatic installation tool.
In other words, you will have problems installing esx or esxi, you'll have
trouble creating virtual machines, and once you create them, they'll be difficult to use. Other than that, its fine.
In all seriousness, I have an esxi machine at home. I built it specifically to learn about VMWare esx and esxi. I had to get help with the install but
if I had it to do over again, I would try the automatic install feature. I
also spent a lot of time learning how to create virtual machines. The remote GUI is not totally impossible to navigate with jaws. But there are parts of it that are very, very difficult. Maybe if you used it every day you could
get to be proficient enough to be productive but I doubt it. I manage the virtual machines on my esxi server via editing the text config files themselves. Once you have the virtual machine up and running, you will have to operate it remotely. The VMWare people would say that that's the whole point of esx and esxi. Esx and esxi are for servers off in the cloud somewhere. If you want a desktop machine, use Workstation. But while operating a machine remotely is easy in linux, it is somewhat of a greater
challenge in Windows. Of course, maybe you already do a lot of remote Windows system administration and that won't be a problem for you. But I don't know how you get your accessibility tools installed on a Windows virtual machine in order to access it remotely.
The way I did it was to configured a USB port on the virtual machine and then plugged a USB headset into the host. That gave me speech on the virtual machine. So I was operating the virtual machine remotely but the headset was physically connected to the host. The only reason I was able to do that was that my remote machine was not very remote. It was only about 5 feet from the esxi host. I am not sure if that makes sense. If you want a clearer explanation, let me know.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Moore" <bmoore@screenreview.org> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 10:01 AM Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] any show stoppers
HI all. applying for this job. IN particular, I am interested in people's thoughts about working in environments with vmware esx any other show stoppers? HELP DESK SUPERVISOR/SENIOR TECHNICAL ANALYST Permanent – Full-Time Annual Salary: $73,180 -$89,035 The Children’s Aid Society of Hamilton is seeking a Help Desk Supervisor/Senior Technical Analyst. The successful candidate will be responsible for supervising the day-to-day operations of the helpdesk and helpdesk staff; identifying, researching, and resolving complex technical problems; documenting, tracking and monitoring problems to ensure resolution in a timely manner; applying updates and patches to server software, hardware and network devices; providing support for both physical and virtual computing environments; and writing new and maintaining existing support documentation. The successful candidate will have: a minimum three year post secondary computing degree/diploma (or equivalent technical certifications and work experience); must possess a well-rounded business background with a broad understanding of computer and network systems, operations, applications, operating systems and security; previous supervision/leadership experience required; minimum three years experience with VMware ESX 3.5 and above, including Virtual Center, HA, DRS, VMotion, Snapshots, Converter Enterprise and VCB; in-depth knowledge and experience with Active Directory, Windows 2003/2008 Server, IIS, SQL, GPO, Terminal Services and/or Citrix XenApp; XP and Windows 7 desktop imaging, deployment, and setup; experience administering and supporting Cisco switches, routers, firewalls; experience with backup and recovery strategies, disaster recovery planning, implementation and testing; full understanding of the IP protocol stack and its related services; in-depth knowledge of server hardware, RAID technologies and Storage Area Networks; ability to absorb and retain information quickly and adept at reading, writing, and interpreting technical documentation and procedure manuals; highly self-motivated and directed with proven problem-solving abilities; strong analytical, organization, multitasking, and prioritizing skills with thorough and acute attention to detail; ability to express complex technical concepts effectively, both verbally and written, to both technical and non-technical agency staff with proven presentation and facilitation skills. cont’d on page 2… 2 The Children’s Aid Society of Hamilton is a large agency of approximately 350 employees which offers an innovative and progressive work environment. Interested applicants should submit a current resume quoting file #17/12 by April 9, 2012: Kelly Oates Administrative Assistant Human Resources Department The Children’s Aid Society of Hamilton PO Box 1170, Depot 1, Hamilton, ON L8N 4B9 E-mail: koates@hamiltoncas.com Fax: 905-522-1089 WE ARE AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER
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