What about a collective thing?
I know very little about jaws / window eyes scripting but what about
collectively approaching a company such as t and t consultancy to request
that they create jaws scripts? I'm sure they'd except paypal or something
like that and licence it out to this group as aposed to any one user. at
the end of the day, they'd still earn from it.
it would significantly cut down on the cost to each interested person who
required better access to certain administration tools while increasing
the viability for others to use them.
it would be a win win situation, we would get better access, scripts would
be available for others with less experience so more would be in a better
position to start therefore increasing the user base therefore motivating
the AT companies to provide support.
It's not what you'd call a conventional idea but if even five / ten people
were interested we could get something going.
All that would be required initially would be a list of applications that
for example come with windows server 2003 or 2008, take your pick. Pick
out three or four vital applications that do not work very well with jaws
but that are vital for the administration of a standard AD or exchange
environment then send these app names to a scripter and request a quote.
It would be up to the interested members of this list to go for it or not
after that.
Take for example windows server update services. The CLI for that is
terrible at times depending on what you want to do. A scripter should be
able to do something to make that more usable and efficient.
Just a thought.
Regards
Darragh Ó Héiligh
Members Service desk
Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas,
Fredrick Building,
South Fredrick Street,
Dublin2
Telephone: +353 (1) 618 4444
Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie
Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie
Ryan Shugart
Sent by: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
24/09/2009 09:03
Please respond to
Blind sysadmins list
To
Blind sysadmins list
cc
Subject
Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less and less
accessible?
Andrew:
Very good points. The explanations I've gotten from the
AT vendors I've talked to is that there simply aren't enough blind people
using these complex systems to warrant them putting the development
resources into making them work. I honestly don't fully buy that, I think
many, certainly not all but many, AT vendors don't have the inhouse
expertise to understand these systems themselves. The IT environment in
many AT vendor shops is simple. That goes for both screen
reader/magnifier vendors as well as the companies who provide value added
services. I'm trying to get some scripts written to make my use of
Window-Eyes with some systems a little easier. The company I went with, a
fairly big one in the US, hadn't heard of half the stuff we used, even the
more common stuff such as, oh, VMWare ESX and Backup Exec. In all
fairness they have made a good effort to do the best they could, but still
the lack of expertise in these systems did sometimes hamper the process.
I get that most of these companies are small and don't
have the resources larger firms do. But, I maintain that if you can get
around using some of these products, it takes some of the urgency out of
making them accessible.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of
Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:19 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less
and less accessible?
Hi,
I use a couple of newer Cisco products which don't use Java, including the
CSA agents, the Cisco secure ACS (which has a strange Java page to log
into the system but after that is plain HTML), and some of the Call
manager work I need to do is also in plain HTML. I think the newer
versions of Call manager are also in plain HTML.
As I have said before, it is a trend of a lot of network provider gear to
use the newer web standards, to make their apps seem as though you are
using a real application. For example, a product we use for network
logging is done completely in a Java application, and thus is completely
inaccessible to me.
I, like you, feel that the screen reader manufacturers should be pushing a
lot harder for access to this, I can't honestly see a reason why this has
gone relatively unnoticed for so long. Software houses like FS and the
like seem quite happy to add new features to Jaws like dictionary lookups
etc, yet we still don't have access to some of the fundamental
technologies.
Thanks.
Andrew.
Andrew Hodgson
Senior Systems Administrator/Projects Engineer
Direct Line Tel: 01432 852332
Email: andrew.hodgson@allpay.net
Please do not print this email unless absolutely necessary.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan
Shugart
Sent: 24 September 2009 07:18
To: Blind sysadmins list
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less
andlessaccessible?
I'm not sure 508 will help us here. In my experience with dealing with
government agencies, most of them don't understand section 508 themselves,
and the few that do, on the organizational level, look at it as something
to be worked around, not complied with. There are a lot of good people
who do take 508 seriously, but my experience is they're just lost in the
wind.
On the specific topic of Cisco, my company just deployed
Cisco's Anyconnect VPN, and that's perfectly accessible. Its all web
based, the pages are very basic HTML, there is a Java or ActiveX plugin to
handle the actual VPN and network traffic, but it has no UI and
everything's HTML based. So some Cisco products work, and as far as VPNs
go Any Connect seems to be the wave of the future, as I don't think the
standard VPN client will work on X64 based systems.
As to the problem of the web site and such using Java,
this brings up a good question. Should we tell Cisco to not use Java or
any of these newer standards because they're inaccessible, or should we
make the newer standards accessible? Java accessibility in particular is
a joke. For a platform that's been in wide spread use for at least ten
years, if not fifteen, it should be much more widely used. Both leading
screen readers have very bad Java support. I honestly don't know if this
is the fault of the screen reader vendors, Sun or the Java programmers,
but unless Cisco's Java isn't using the accessibility standards, its not
Cisco's fault their site and downloads are inaccessible, its either the
screen reader vendors or Sun's. Again I don't know whose fault that is,
I'm just saying the answer to this isn't to push Cisco to stop using these
newer technologies, its to push the adaptive technology industry really
hard, and possibly in some uncomfortrable directions for th
em.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of
Scott Granados
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:47 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list; dave.mehler@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less
andlessaccessible?
I don't work for the feds so it won't help me much but I know people who
do.:) I'd love to see the government threaten to stop buying Cisco for 1
day, that would put this whole thing to rest once and for all. I'm hopeful
though, the sited folks don't like the state of things either so hopefully
they will redesign a lot of this stuff for the whole market, that's much
more likely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher McMillan"
To: ; "'Blind sysadmins list'"
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less
andlessaccessible?
I dealt with Section 508 for ALVA Access Group and also worked for the
Federal Government in IT and the early stages of 508 Regulations. Feel
free
to e-mail me off list and I can send the regulations forward to help with
this issue.
This relates to Federal Agencies using the equipment and not the public
workforce. I can tell you that much.
I will be going on vacation till 10/13/09 so it will take awhile if I
don't
hear from any one privately.
I can be reached at christophermcmillan@hotmail.com or work e-mail at
chrismcmillan@ceektech.com.
Sincerely,
Christopher McMillan, CIO
CEEK Technology
Blog: http://ceektechnology.spaces.live.com
Web Site: http://www.ceektechnology.com
WM: chrismcmillan@ceektech.com or
christophermcmillan@hotmail.com
E-mail: chrismcmillan@ceektech.com or
christophermcmillan@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:14 PM
To: 'Blind sysadmins list'
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less
and
lessaccessible?
Hi,
Emphatically yes i am seeing the same thing. I have a Linksys WRT54g2
router
and I can not use the java download page the dropdown box like thing,
emphasis on, is not jfw friendly at all. This to me is unacceptable. I've
emailed them feedback but have heard nothing. I really want to get the
latest firmware as i'm hoping that that will make a linux upgrade easier.
And the law i believe is called Section 508, I think it says
something and this is a paraphrase: to market to the government products
and
services which i suppose sites would be in that group must be accessible
to
persons with disabilities.
Hth
Dave.
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of
Scott
Granados
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:12 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less and
lessaccessible?
Hi all,
I know this has come up in some forms before but has anyone else noticed
how
unfriendly to screen readers Cisco's web site and products are becoming? I
just tried to download the latest windows VPN client and got lost in a
java
based download manager that had absolutely no output recognizable to JFW.
This sucks! In fact, WTF! I guess this makes my decision to suggest that
my
company migrate over to Juniper even easier. Isn't there some federal
accessibility standard or some such in place that Cisco has to conform to
in
order to market the US government? Can't some pressure be applied from
that
angle?
Thanks
Scott
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