Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less andless accessible?

Oh, by the way, what you say below is pretty much exactly why I started the International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. I have a lot of friends who are computer professionals. I've seen a pattern emerge where they gradually get locked out of the really juicy parts of their jobs. Cisco engineering would be a good example. It is just easier for your boss to put someone else in charge of your routers if you are struggling to access them. So maybe you already have too much to do anyway. Well, what if one thing after another follows that pattern? Pretty soon you're doing nothing but cobol programming all day. And then when layoffs come around, you're the one who gets it. And why not? It's only fair. After all, you are less important to the company than the other people. Existing advocacy groups for the blind tend to address the blind mass arket -- if there is such a thing. And I can understand that. They are more interested in making sure Microsoft Excel is accessible than Cisco routers. The NFB sued Target because it's web site is inaccessible. That's fine with me. But I couldn't care less about Target's web site. To me, accessibility of VMware is way, way more important. To you it's Cisco. To other blind technologists, it's Phoenix BIOSes. I doubt even a single person's job depends on them being able to access the Target web site. There may be such a person but if so, there are very very few. But your livelyhood and mine depend on the accessibility of Cisco, VMWare, etc. This is what is putting food on the table for us. This is what is paying our heating bills. So that's why I started IAVIT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Granados" To: "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less andless accessible?

Is there an official organization or group of Blind technical professionals that could draft a letter to the screen reader manufacturors and demand some service? We really need this support. Tech jobs are just to good of a deal for blind workers. If we clear some of these accessibility issues we can compete on the same footing as everyone else and enjoy real economic success. What's more important than that?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Hodgson" To: "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less and less accessible?

Hi,

I use a couple of newer Cisco products which don't use Java, including the CSA agents, the Cisco secure ACS (which has a strange Java page to log into the system but after that is plain HTML), and some of the Call manager work I need to do is also in plain HTML. I think the newer versions of Call manager are also in plain HTML.

As I have said before, it is a trend of a lot of network provider gear to use the newer web standards, to make their apps seem as though you are using a real application. For example, a product we use for network logging is done completely in a Java application, and thus is completely inaccessible to me.

I, like you, feel that the screen reader manufacturers should be pushing a lot harder for access to this, I can't honestly see a reason why this has gone relatively unnoticed for so long. Software houses like FS and the like seem quite happy to add new features to Jaws like dictionary lookups etc, yet we still don't have access to some of the fundamental technologies.

Thanks. Andrew.

Andrew Hodgson Senior Systems Administrator/Projects Engineer

Direct Line Tel: 01432 852332 Email: andrew.hodgson@allpay.net

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-----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 24 September 2009 07:18 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less andlessaccessible?

I'm not sure 508 will help us here. In my experience with dealing with government agencies, most of them don't understand section 508 themselves, and the few that do, on the organizational level, look at it as something to be worked around, not complied with. There are a lot of good people who do take 508 seriously, but my experience is they're just lost in the wind. On the specific topic of Cisco, my company just deployed Cisco's Anyconnect VPN, and that's perfectly accessible. Its all web based, the pages are very basic HTML, there is a Java or ActiveX plugin to handle the actual VPN and network traffic, but it has no UI and everything's HTML based. So some Cisco products work, and as far as VPNs go Any Connect seems to be the wave of the future, as I don't think the standard VPN client will work on X64 based systems. As to the problem of the web site and such using Java, this brings up a good question. Should we tell Cisco to not use Java or any of these newer standards because they're inaccessible, or should we make the newer standards accessible? Java accessibility in particular is a joke. For a platform that's been in wide spread use for at least ten years, if not fifteen, it should be much more widely used. Both leading screen readers have very bad Java support. I honestly don't know if this is the fault of the screen reader vendors, Sun or the Java programmers, but unless Cisco's Java isn't using the accessibility standards, its not Cisco's fault their site and downloads are inaccessible, its either the screen reader vendors or Sun's. Again I don't know whose fault that is, I'm just saying the answer to this isn't to push Cisco to stop using these newer technologies, its to push the adaptive technology industry really hard, and possibly in some uncomfortrable directions for th em. Ryan

-----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:47 PM To: Blind sysadmins list; dave.mehler@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less andlessaccessible?

I don't work for the feds so it won't help me much but I know people who do.:) I'd love to see the government threaten to stop buying Cisco for 1 day, that would put this whole thing to rest once and for all. I'm hopeful though, the sited folks don't like the state of things either so hopefully they will redesign a lot of this stuff for the whole market, that's much more likely.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher McMillan" To: ; "'Blind sysadmins list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less andlessaccessible?

I dealt with Section 508 for ALVA Access Group and also worked for the Federal Government in IT and the early stages of 508 Regulations. Feel free to e-mail me off list and I can send the regulations forward to help with this issue.

This relates to Federal Agencies using the equipment and not the public workforce. I can tell you that much.

I will be going on vacation till 10/13/09 so it will take awhile if I don't hear from any one privately.

I can be reached at christophermcmillan@hotmail.com or work e-mail at chrismcmillan@ceektech.com.

Sincerely,

Christopher McMillan, CIO CEEK Technology Blog: http://ceektechnology.spaces.live.com Web Site: http://www.ceektechnology.com WM: chrismcmillan@ceektech.com or christophermcmillan@hotmail.com E-mail: chrismcmillan@ceektech.com or christophermcmillan@hotmail.com

-----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:14 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less and lessaccessible?

Hi, Emphatically yes i am seeing the same thing. I have a Linksys WRT54g2 router and I can not use the java download page the dropdown box like thing, emphasis on, is not jfw friendly at all. This to me is unacceptable. I've emailed them feedback but have heard nothing. I really want to get the latest firmware as i'm hoping that that will make a linux upgrade easier. And the law i believe is called Section 508, I think it says something and this is a paraphrase: to market to the government products and services which i suppose sites would be in that group must be accessible to persons with disabilities. Hth Dave.

-----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Anyone else noticing Cisco becoming less and lessaccessible?

Hi all, I know this has come up in some forms before but has anyone else noticed how unfriendly to screen readers Cisco's web site and products are becoming? I just tried to download the latest windows VPN client and got lost in a java based download manager that had absolutely no output recognizable to JFW. This sucks! In fact, WTF! I guess this makes my decision to suggest that my company migrate over to Juniper even easier. Isn't there some federal accessibility standard or some such in place that Cisco has to conform to in order to market the US government? Can't some pressure be applied from that angle?

Thanks Scott

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