Re: [Blind-sysadmins] JAWS with RDS

This is using remote desktop services on a virtual machine running under hyper-v. I can get this to work pretty good if I have a batch file that runs both jaws and the published application. The keystrokes work fine actually. I just would not like to have to use a bat file to do this. Mitchell Green Information Technology Facilitator o | 402-614-3331 x226 c | 402-871-1063 f | 402-933-1616 mgreen@outlooknebraska.com 4125 S. 72nd Street | Omaha, NE 68127 NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission and any attachment is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipients is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and destroy any copies of this document. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] JAWS with RDS Hi Mitchell: First you're referring to Remote Desktop Services on some version of Windows Server right? I don't think Hyper-V lets you publish apps directly. I'm just honestly curious how this is working out for you, as far as do the local copies of JAWS on the enduser workstations get in the way of JAWS running on the server? I played around with doing this with Window-Eyes many years ago, and while Window-Eyes cooperated with its local version when I just connected to the pure remote desktop, when I connected to individual apps published over RDS the local Window-Eyes never went to sleep, Window-Eyes hotkeys would be executed by the local version and not the remote version, keystrokes got echoed back by both copies etc. Does JAWS work better with this situation? I reported the bugs to GW-Micro at the time, and so far as I know they're still there. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mitchell Green Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:57 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Sure does. Thanks. Mitchell Green Information Technology Facilitator o | 402-614-3331 x226 c | 402-871-1063 f | 402-933-1616 mgreen@outlooknebraska.com 4125 S. 72nd Street | Omaha, NE 68127 NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission and any attachment is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipients is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and destroy any copies of this document. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:46 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Mitchell, I am not familiar with your skill level, but you would create a GPO and then tell it to execute a script or batch file that runs JAWS. The script would not need to know the user information. This is because the GPO is applied to an OU that has the users for JAWS inside it. So, the first thing I would do is go and look at the AD structure under AD Users and Computers. Go to the OU containing the users and create a new OU inside of that one and apply your GPO to it. Don't forget to put those users needing JAWS inside of it. Hope that helps, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mitchell Green Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:30 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility They are part of the domain. What just have jaws start from a gpo? What is the best way to do this? Never thought of this. Mitchell Green Information Technology Facilitator o | 402-614-3331 x226 c | 402-871-1063 f | 402-933-1616 mgreen@outlooknebraska.com 4125 S. 72nd Street | Omaha, NE 68127 NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission and any attachment is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipients is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and destroy any copies of this document. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:06 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Mitchell, You could do this if those VM's are part of the domain with a GPO and just add the users to a JAWS group. Thanks, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mitchell Green Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:03 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility The question: How do you get jaws to start before a published application is ran on a Hyper-V terminal server? The way we want to do it: So instead of remoting on with a full rdp session we want to publish our applications. I need jaws to start for some users but not all users. The clunky not completely reliable work around: The way I am getting around this at this point is to publish a .bat, remember those?, file and have the bat file start jaws then the application. This is not a good thing if you want to run multiple published applications. The thought: I wonder if you could run a script that says when a particular user logs on then start jaws. The hope: That anyone has any ideas. Mitchell Green Information Technology Facilitator o | 402-614-3331 x226 c | 402-871-1063 f | 402-933-1616 mgreen@outlooknebraska.com 4125 S. 72nd Street | Omaha, NE 68127 NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission and any attachment is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipients is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and destroy any copies of this document. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 7:39 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility I didn't see it. Send it again if that is ok. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mitchell Green Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 7:32 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Did any of you see my message on jaws and hyper-v published applications? It is okay not to have an answer but I can not tell if it was received or not. Thanks. Mitchell Green Information Technology Facilitator o | 402-614-3331 x226 c | 402-871-1063 f | 402-933-1616 mgreen@outlooknebraska.com 4125 S. 72nd Street | Omaha, NE 68127 NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission and any attachment is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipients is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and destroy any copies of this document. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 5:46 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Hi Ryan, The company I worked for made their entire platform on VMWare ESXI to replace desktops for the end user. Their customer base was mostly local governments that didn't want to budget to have an I.T. staff member. If they lost access to our datacenter, they were out of luck as their thin clients had no gui. So simple tasks like word processing were essentially out of the equation. They market themselves to be a drop-in replacement for I.T. Staff. I see the benefits and costs. If I am hired to protect a company's interests and data, I am not so sure that is the way to go. Virtualization is awesome and definitely great for certain applications especially servers. For me it seems we are going back to dummy terminals. I remember the days of Citrix on NT4 and it had some good uses but still didn't think having low end workstations and put it all on the server was the right way to go. I guess at the end of the day, it is about finding the right tool for the job. This is a great discussion. I am enjoying it. Kind Regards, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 5:03 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Hi: Well to be fair, again back to where I worked, each office had four redundant internet connections, one of which was via LTE, just to make sure people could keep working in the event of an outage. Not all of that was VDI, as each plant and office had to talk back to our headquarters to run the ERP system we used. I think to a certain extent, VDI is just a growth of a trend that's been around for years. Don't forget, Citrix started way back in the Windows NT 3.51 days with their first product to do app virtualization, and its just grown from there. I think a lot of large enterprises have used Citrix or RDS to centralize running of company wide apps, and it makes sense. And these are situations that both JAWS and Window-Eyes have supported for well over ten years now. VDI just takes it to the next level, and with appropriate planning it probably could be made just as accessible. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been a bigger priority and has been something the various AT vendors and job placement people have just kind of ignored and hoped goes away. That being said, I personally do not see VDI taking off in the public cloud in big ways any time soon. I know various vendors are trying, but I think for a lot of companies for now asking them to give up that kind of control is just asking too much. I think VDI will continue to trudge along in private clouds and company data centers much like it has for the past ten years, being useful where its useful. Again though, what do I know. I can only guess from experience and people I've talked to. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 1:24 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Ryan, Thanks for your detailed responses. I think it really depends on what the need for a companies clients are. Sadly, I think a lot of I.T. staff will find themselves out of work if they push too much to the cloud. If a fiber cut happens for example, the VDI in the cloud situation will die a sudden death. Thanks, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 4:09 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility Hi: From a client perspective, AKA a blind user accessing a virtual desktop, its just using Citrix ICA or RDP in the back ground, so any screen reader that supports that should work. Many of the thin clients are actually machines running embedded versions of Windows, a friend of mine got Window-Eyes running on one a few years ago. If NVDA got support in for RDP/ICA protocols I think we could actually have a pretty reasonable experience with VDI. In fact, NVDA is written in such a way that it could even be streamed onto the appropriate VM running your session and moved off when you're done. It all henges on the proper support being added. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 11:28 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility There is no good accessible solution yet for virtual desktops is there? What’s the state of that?

On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:25 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Ryan,

Just curious.... How long ago was that? I would expect that it is getting better because of the trend of having VDI... BTW, I am not a big fan of VDI since it is what put me out of a job.... LOL.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine M. Moss Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 1:58 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

I have to say, that's some crazy stats right there ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 1:23 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

Where I used to work, we actually began a migration from ESXI to Xen Server due to VMWare's outrageous licensing at the time, I believe this is when they were trying to license by amount of RAM or similar, it was a while ago. Anyway, we actually migrated most of our VDI environment at the time over to Xen Server, (we were using Citrix Xen Desktop anyway so it made sense) and ended up running into so many problems we eventually had to migrate the Xen Server hosts back to ESXI. We still used Xen Desktop for the VDI controller just on top of ESXI. We had Xen Server hosts lock up all the time, individual VMs freeze, etc. I believe in the end even Citrix said that ESXI was a better solution for what we were trying to do than their own Xen Server solution. I will say we had some different requirements since we had to get 3D video across the VDI environment, when I left that was actually working well in ESXI so perhaps that's something Xen just can't handle. Don't know, but just wanted to put my experience out there. Ryan

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine M. Moss Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 5:19 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

I wonder why venders such as Dell, for instance, have dropped support for XenServer? I know they did recently; I think in 13th generation PowerEdge.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

Greetings,

So far, I am happy with XenServer. I use KVM coupled with SolusVM in my web hosting business. KVM uses the command line unless you provide a GUI for it. Xenserver has a bit of a learning curve but is very similar to ESXI. The biggest pain is getting stuck in the console windows and trying to get back out of it. JAWS seems to read most everything else. Obviously I had to have someone visually read the server setup screens but it is quick and easy to get it up and running. The setup process reminds me of the Red Hat setup process. Looks and feels exactly like it.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of mattias jonsson Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 7:57 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

so are it xen or kvm for accessibility?

På 21 februari 2017 13:32:45 "Katherine M. Moss" skrev:

...

One of the reasons why I personally don't advise VMware that much; in a business environment of which I've got no control, that's one thing, for for anything else, stay away from it if I were you.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:16 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

True, I forgot about PowerCLI. I used it quite a bit to manage ESXI, the problem is PowerCLI only goes so far. You can manage basic ESXI and VCenter using it, and even use some basic add ons like Update Manager. However, we were getting into some of the advanced tools such as Site Recovery Manager and VCloud Director, and at that point those tools had no commandline interface at all, don't know if this has changed since I was a VMWare guy. Ryan

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine M. Moss Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 6:40 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

I've not used it since Version 6 but what I've discovered is to create VMs, one can use VMware Workstation, and then import the created template into the server. And for management, there's PowerCLI for those who prefer the command line interface.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 21:22 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

Greetings,

My experience with the HTML interface is that you cannot function very well with it. I switched back to Xen Server from Citrix. Then I can use Xen Center for most tasks. Granted to initially setup a VM I had to have someone sighted but I built my templates and now it isn't a big deal.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 9:16 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

By template do you mean an .OVF appliance? If so then most appliances default to a DHCP address and how you change the IP depends on the appliance. Many have you access a configuration menu through the console, which isn't accessible, some will pull a DHCP IP and have a web interface set up so if you can figure out the assigned DHCP address you can go in and change the IP through the web UI. If you mean a standard VMWare template that you need a Virtual Center server to get to, yes you can do this, the UI is clunky but you can get through it in my experience. I'm assuming you're using the older VMWare Infrastructure Client and not the new HTML5 client, I honestly have no experience with that to know how well it works with screen readers. Ryan

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of mattias Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 5:05 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] esxi and accessibility

or are it called esx?

vmware

i have a dedicated server running it

if i download a vm template

are it possible to customize it?

with public ip etc?

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