Re: [Blind-sysadmins] [BlindLikeMe] KapsysSignsanAgreementwithIndependent Living Aids

I think what we object to is the cost verses benefit here. (I'll tone down the local expressions a little I'm not meaning to personally attack) I realize that style / physical appearance is something we all value differently. I agree with you that functionality is king and I'll give you the fact that you like the design but I don't and honestly I don't like the design of 90% of the products made for our community specifically. A few points on style. A lot of us sited, blind, deaf and even left handed like to try at least to put together some sort of unified polished image because it seems to translate in to better inter personal relations both socially and professionally as I said earlier. I may not be able to read the Rolex that I wear but I wear one because it fits with my dress and with my friends around me. Whether we like to admit it or not, at least here in the bay area which admittedly is a hub for this sort of thing but we love our gadgets and they are both statements as well as tools. (fun fact, 40% of all cell phones in San Francisco are IPhones) The IPhone is a great example of this. It's really good looking, the interface is great, the things it does it does well instead of half assed like some other operating systems, and I can use one for $399 just like the guy next to me can who's sited. Iphones are ice breakers and have a strong fan base so you might get a girl's attention by having one, or might click with that possible employer, or might meet someone new and interesting because you both appreciate the same tech. If I'm walking around with my Rolex, Jordans and a car to match the watch just dropped me off and then I bust out a pakmate people just won't get it. It doesn't fit. I don't like the squarish vibe of these devices in general. Put a screen on all blind specific devices because we work with sited people and should be able to each have a common interface. (nothing screenless I need to stress this point) You laughed at my 30 inch touch screen idea but I use a 70 inch touch screen almost every day and I'm totally blind. Where I work has some experimental digital out of home stuff that we repurpose and experiment with. The idea isn't that crazy and I actually as a rule love touch interfaces from the small phones I use up to huge displays. There's something very real about interacting with the screen the way sited people do and that eases the flow of discussion because you're both working in a common interface. I'm not sure if I'm being clear enough here so I hope you get my point. Bottom line, I'd like to see the vendors in our equipment space be a lot more creative. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" To: ; "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] [BlindLikeMe] KapsysSignsanAgreementwithIndependent Living Aids Well, exactly which point that I made are you disputing? I didn't say your netbbook couldn't possibly have a usable keyboard. And I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not disputing that the Pac Mate is old, even obsolete, by the standards of today's hardware before it sinks in. Look, no one in their right mind would say that they'd prefer a system with 128 Mb of RAM and Windows Mobile over one with 2 Gb and Windows XP or Windows 7. I'm not saying that. I'm talking about the basic design of a Pac mate-- which I find quite fundamentally sound. The Pac Mate has a more or less regular keyboard and an integrated braille display. If you want those two things, the design of a Pac Mate is very nice. If you want to live with a computer with a compressed keyboard, well, fine. But a lot of people wouldn't like that. And to say that the design of a Pac Mate is bogus simply because it has a more or less normal sized keyboard, well, that's crazy. If Freedom Scientific put out a machine exactly like the Pac Mate in design but updated to today's hardware standards, it would be a wonderful thing. Most likely it would still be too expensive but it wouldn't have any design flaws. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins][BlindLikeMe] KapsysSigns anAgreementwithIndependent Living Aids

Hi John,

I have to disagree with you here. The Pacmate is twice the size of my Netbook and twice as heavy. My netbook has a perfectly usable keyboard, much better processor, and full-blown windows XP with 160GB of hard disk space. The Pacmate is definitely stonemasonry in my view too.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday 13 November 2009 17:23 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] [BlindLikeMe] KapsysSigns anAgreementwithIndependent Living Aids

Think about what you're saying, Scott. You're suggesting someone buy a particular adaptive device to impress people? It's absurd. Yeah, I suppose that may figure into the equasion a little but, holy cow, that would be way,

way down my list in terms of importance.

I am not denying that the Pac Mate uses older or obsolete technology. I said

that myself in my previous message. I am disputing your criticism of the basic design of the Pac Mate. It does do what it was designed to do.

Your repeated assertion that the Pac Mate was designed by stone masons is meaningless. I made some specific logical points which you failed to address. The Pac Mate top surface is already as small as it could be and still have a normal keyboard and a braille display. Isn't that true? Some people like a normal sized keyboard. Or do you think everyone who owns a laptop is crazy?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Granados" To: "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins][BlindLikeMe] KapsysSigns anAgreementwithIndependent Living Aids

Dude your smoking crack and not even good Oakland crack but that San Francisco Tenderloin shwag.

The Pakmate is absolute garbage. It doesn't even do what it's marketed for well. It's made with ten year old technology if not more, it has the design style of a stone mason and wins the award for the clunkiest interface ever. If you like carrying building materials around with you then great, by all means. I however live n the real world where we like to have cool ice breakers, where we interact with the general population and where we have real desires / needs spanning the intire range from professional to social and everything inbetween. Clearly you haven't worked in a modern engineering work place. One's gadgets are an important (although certainly not the only part) of relationship building. I recently started a new job and a real part of my first day there was meeting new people and finding other gadget nuts to exchange war stories with. Just like my sited coworkers have the windows or b-berry / IPhone discussions I can participate as an equal member. Your pakmate can't do this. So enjoy your outdated non interoperable "note taker" I'm glad it works for you. I'll however stack my netbook up against your 10 year old device any day of the week.

;)

----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" To: "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] [BlindLikeMe] KapsysSigns anAgreementwithIndependent Living Aids

I think you are way, way off here. What the heck do I care about making girls drop their panties? These are tools for petes sake? Who gives a flying fig how stylish they are?

And a touch screen? Holy cow! For blind people, there is no way a touch screen can come close to a keyboard for ease of input. In fact, there are people making money selling keypads for blind people to put over touch screens.

There is nothing wrong with the basic design of a Pac Mate. The technology is old so it's thicker and heavier than it has to be. But other than that, it's perfectly fine. There is no way a unit could have a smaller top surface and still be as useful as a Pac Mate. I need a keyboard and an integrated braille display. That's exactly what the Pac Mate is. There's no wasted space on the top surface of a Pac Mate.

I think you're confusing the Pac Mate with a cell phone. It's not a cell phone. You don't take your Pac Mate with you on a date. You take it too meetings and to class. What you really need to do is compare a KNFB Reader to your ideal machine, not a Pac Mate. The Pac Mate was never intended to do what you want a device to do.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Granados" To: "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] [BlindLikeMe] KapsysSigns an AgreementwithIndependent Living Aids

Oh let me clerify my blind specific comments. I wasn't really speaking about the software. I realize that software requires lots of developments with testing cycles and all number of issues from soup to nuts but the hardware is just unacceptable. I think the folks who design these products like the pakmate or braille devices went to stone masonry school. I'm going to beat the next so called designer of a blind hardware product with the brick he calls his device the next time I see one hit the market. Now to expand, I know that some folks have differing abilities and specific physical requirements but I don't need buttons the size of my naughty bits as an interface on a square block brick styleless blob of (explative deleted). I have a very fine sense of touch and good finger skillz (lol) that I expect most braille readers have. Why not make very fine controls with lots of functionality. Give me some style to the platform and for God sakes make the hardware something from this century. I don't want some note taker built by a highschool kid with a 6502 kit and a science project to complete! I seriously built equipment with more style and flaire in electronics lab! Give me some super thin flexable interface or a nice 30 inch Mac touch screen display! Give me something that's going to make the girls drop their panties for goodness sake! What am I supposed to do when chatting up a breezy pull out my trusty brick and ask if her phone has an RS232 port for me to plug in to so I can send her an ASCII file with my contact information included after I whipe it through an old translator written under Windows mobile 2003, or bust my big bad IPhone on her forehead? (no IPhone doesn't mean something else) hahahaha Who else thinks it would be hot if she actually did have a serial to USB adapter.:) Ok you see my point. There's a total lack of style. I don't mean it has to look like the sited lets be clear it just has to either be so functional you don't care or something jazzy. I do support though fully the accessible consumer devices out there. I am all about the off the shelf cell phone and about to jump off that in to the netbook. Give me a nice super thin braille display with modern GSM / CDMA or better still LTE, a great phone app, great interoperable text messenger, full function web browser, modern I/O including firewire for outboard disks, solid state disk drive, super high res camera (20+ MP) and based on some OS that works with the world and I'll give you ten grand! I will not give you ten grand for windows mobile in a brick!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Hodgson" To: "Blind sysadmins list" Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 7:29 AM

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