It's more accurate to say there's no reason to think noise cancelling technology is damaging to hearing. But to say it doesn't damage hearing is assuming facts not in evidence. Sound is made up of pressure waves. The pressure waves from the noise in the environment are cancelled by pressure waves emitted by the headphones themselves. So your eardrum doesn't vibrate and you do not perceive the noise. But what causes hearing damage? Is it the amount of vibration, the amount of pressure, or something else? Not only do I not know that, I don't think anybody does. In poking around on the internet, I found references to studies aimed at determining exactlyhow loud noise damages your hearing. But that is still an open question. The total amount of energy applied to your eardrum is probably greater with noise cancelling headphones than it is with normal ones. About the only way to settle this would be to find studies of the effect of noise cancellation on hearing and I haven't been able to find anything like that. One thing I'd grant vy way of common sense is that noise cancelling headphones would allow you to avoid turning up the volume on your headphones to compensate for the noise in the environment. They may help you avoid hearing loss in that way. On 08/31/2015 07:58 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
There is no adverse effect of noise canceling technology. They work using basic vector math so the total sum of the energies is equal to less than the individuals because of the addition of positive and negative vectors.
The sound out of phase is not damaging to you, it just offsets the sound in positive phase.
On Aug 28, 2015, at 10:20 PM, Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> wrote:
I hate noise-cancelling headphones because they give me, at least, a false sense of my environment. They use noise to mask or counteract other noise in reverse phase, so you *know* that can't be good for you long-term.
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:07:25 -0500, you wrote:
I would think that noise cancelling headphones would be better for your hearing than regular ones. It's possible it's the other way around though. Those things work by generating sound waves to cancel out the sound waves from the environment. Technically, there is more noise, not less. It's just that you can't perceive it. I poked around for information on whether noise cancelling headphones are better or worse for preventing hearing loss but found nothing. The closest I came was an obsolete article on the Consumer Reports web site that said noise cancelling headphones prevent hearing loss because they allow you to avoid turning up the volume in noisy situations. I had to read that article from the google cache because the link to it gave a 404 error.
I also found some stuff indicating that the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) does not have any regulations regarding noise cancelling headphones. At first I figured this was a bad sign because if you could use noise cancellation technology to save your hearing, OSHA would madate it's use. But if you wear noise cancelling headphones, you aren't going to hear people yelling warnings at you, for example so OSHA is not going to recommend them. Well, all that means is that OSHA's neutrality on the use of noise cancelling headphones is not a data point in terms of preventing hearing loss -- which is what I am mostly interested in.
On 08/28/2015 07:35 AM, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:
There's quite a lot of sound leakage with the aftershockz.
I find that when really focusing on a screen reader I cant let myself hear external noises. I generally use a pair of Boes noise cancelling ear phones. It helps me really focus on what I'm doing. I assume it's like someone writing a document in distraction free or full screen mode. All the other flashy buttons go away so you can get things done without distractions.
I'm actually sitting in Starbucks now while my wife is off shopping. Enjoying a reasonably nice coffee while catching up on some work. It's noisy in here but I'm oblivious at the moment.
It's meant to be my day off but.. our VPN went down today so looks like there's no rest for the wicked.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Jen Bottom Sent: Friday 28 August 2015 10:35 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] headphones (was: teraterm)
Agree with Vic,
I use Aftershocks at home and may consider getting a set for work.
TBH though I think that perhaps the noise in my office would be worse for my ears than the speech :)
Personally even if using ear phones, I would not recommend anyone use something that is going to speak a password out loud, sound leakage etc.
I think I actually used to have that problem with Putty and either Jaws or NVDA, but that was about 7 years ago and I don't use Putty any more.
Cheers, Jen.
On 8/28/15, Greg B. <gbobo@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Hi everybody,
I have switched to using bone conduction headphones which sound amazingly good. Using this style of headphone keeps both ears open so even if walking outside, I can hear things in the environment. I also use on the ear hadphones with in-line volume control which helps with the hearing problem. The open ear headphones are Aftershockz 3. I like using them even when I am taking notes in class.
Greg B.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Brent Harding Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 1:02 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] headphones (was: teraterm)
I imagine it's probably OK as long as we don't have to turn it up very loud to get it over other noise in the environment.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Granados" <scott@granados-llc.net> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] headphones (was: teraterm)
What?
Speak louder!
:)
So that's funny but we are very similar on this front. However, I definitely have lost hearing a lot of hearing at that. Lots of loud music, loud audio and for extended periods of time, probably 16+ hours per
day for what 30 years or so? I was in the music game before network engineering and really blew out a lot of my hearing then mixing live shows
and working in the studio. As you know your ears lose sensitivity over time so after say a 20 hour recording session you would find that you start the day at a nice low sound pressure level and by the end of the day
you could drown out jet engines.:)
I do the same thing though now. I don't like wearing a headset on both ears in the office because I can't hear people walking up on me or standing outside my cube. I leave the cans on over my left ear and leave the right ear open to hear the environment around me.
You're smart though being careful with your hearing. I was definitely the
opposite of that and while I don't regret a thing about it I know I have damaged my hearing pretty significantly.
Broadcasters run in to this a lot. Rush Limbaugh has an implant to restore his hearing from what I remember and it's attributed to wearing headphones for an extended period at elevated levels.
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 12:18 PM, John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote: > > I'd prefer not to wear headphones because I figure that can't be > good for > > your hearing. I know there are studies that show that listening to > loud music with headphones damages your hearing. I am unaware of any > studies that show that listening to speech at a normal level damages > your hearing. But why take the chance? > > Having said that though, I am wearing a headset right now. I don't > want my co-workers listening over my shoulder as it were. I know > they'd prefer > > not to listen but I figure sometimes they can't help it. It's not > just that I don't want them knowing my business. I'm not going to > listen to porn or anything. But if I'm struggling with something, I > don't want them > > over hearing. > > I've compromised on wearing my headset over just one ear. I always > use my > > left ear so if I lose hearing in that ear, it will probably be > because of > > the headset. > > > > > On 08/27/2015 10:07 AM, Scott Granados wrote: >> That would be a fine thing if someone compromised a machine because >> they >> >> over heard a password on a screen reader. Wow! Imagine that one. >> I've >> never thought about it much but that's a pretty big risk. I always >> use headphones which is probably why I never thought about it but >> if someone >> >> really wanted to they could probably pick up the signal from my cans. >> >> >> >> Well >>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:04 AM, John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote: >>> >>> I've been a linux user for a while now but when I used Windows and >>> openssh, I had a problem in that jaws would speak my password as I >>> typed it in. I wrote a jaws script to stop that. I don't know if >>> it would still work but here it is: >>> >>> http://www.math.wisc.edu/~jheim/pub/program.jss >>> >>> >>> On 08/27/2015 05:34 AM, Jen Bottom wrote: >>>> I have OpensSH installed on a Windows box at work and that works >>>> fine for connecting to other machines. >>>> >>>> I use a 'config' file in my user's '.ssh' directory for managing >>>> keys etc. >>>> >>>> I think iti came with GitBash, but you might well be able to get >>>> it via Chocolaty, if you kike that sort of package manager, or >>>> just download it from the net. >>>> >>>> I used to use Putty for connecting in when working at home, but I >>>> found it a lot of faff. Give me a nice config file any day :) >>>> >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Jen! >>>> >>>> On 8/24/15, Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> wrote: >>>>> Emphasis on the simple--they don't provide the insert-q info. >>>>> >>>>> If you press ctrl-shft-r, they should toggle between reading and >>>>> ignoring incoming text. >>>>> >>>>> The scripts are named "ssh" because that is what JFW is >>>>> expecting for >>>>> >>>>> this >>>>> program. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 24, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris: >>>>>> >>>>>> I downloaded your scripts and SecureCRT, but have a >>>>>> question/problem. >>>>>> All the scripts are for ssh, but the SecureCRT program isn't >>>>>> called that. How do I know they're in service, especially since >>>>>> I didn't find any I didn't find any ScriptFileName function, so >>>>>> I put one in, and when I press JAWS Key Q, JAWS tells me I'm >>>>>> running the default scripts. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:57:11 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use Secure CRT and some very simple JAWS scripts for screen >>>>>>> echo that I wrote and placed here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://chrisnestrud.com/projects/jfw/scrt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 07:33:21PM -0500, Brent Harding wrote: >>>>>>>> I think something broke after Jaws 12 or so. Teraterm wasn't >>>>>>>> bad with the simple modification I found on one of the Cavi >>>>>>>> archives on the net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> try to apply that to 13 and up, and it kind of falls apart. I >>>>>>>> think we probably have to find a different way to edit files >>>>>>>> on the remote machine though because we can't stay in Jaws 12 >>>>>>>> forever just for TT to work good. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Matzura" >>>>>>>> <sm@noisynotes.com> >>>>>>>> To: "Blind sysadmins list" >>>>>>>> <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 3:31 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] TeraTerm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's what I do with TT now. I'm trying to get away from >>>>>>>> that mess. >>>>>>>> TT often loses cursor track. I'm noticing the same thing with >>>>>>>> PUTTY. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:26:46 +0000, you wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Putty: use the jaws cursor to reed >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >>>>>>>>> Fr?n: Blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] F?r >>>>>>>>> Steve Matzura >>>>>>>>> Skickat: den 17 augusti 2015 20:59 >>>>>>>>> Till: Blind sysadmins list >>>>>>>>> <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >>>>>>>>> ?mne: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] TeraTerm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How much better is putty with JAWS than TeraTerm? I tried >>>>>>>>> it, and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have to read every line manuallly once I'm connected to the >>>>>>>>> other system. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:33:50 +0000, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Go ahead and check out putty or secure CRT. Putty is free, >>>>>>>>>> Secure CRT is $99ish and has a jaws script that works with >>>>>>>>>> it. Putty is very good though, supports ssh and lots of >>>>>>>>>> other protocols including serial. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Steve Matzura >>>>>>>>>>> <sm@noisynotes.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is there a better solution for ssh-ing than this? There's >>>>>>>>>>> a simple JAWS script I use with it, but it has quirks and >>>>>>>>>>> annoyances which make me wonder sometimes how I get >>>>>>>>>>> anything at all done with it. >>>>>>>>>>> Soon >>>>>>>>>>> as I get my Raspberry Pi set up as an ssh terminal, I'll >>>>>>>>>>> probably ditch the whole TeraTerm thing, but if there's >>>>>>>>>>> something better, or something that can be changed in the >>>>>>>>>>> script I have for it, I'm all about trying it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TIA >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Heim, jheim@math.wisc.edu, skype:john.g.heim >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >> > > -- > John Heim, jheim@math.wisc.edu, skype:john.g.heim > > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list > Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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