In fact Angel is dead wrong. There is evidence that use even at “normal levels” is damaging. The big problem is creep. Normal levels to start don’t mean you’ll be set at normal levels when you finish. Your ears tighten up and grow tired the more you use them in a single session. This means more gain and more sound pressure level and you get in a vicious circle.
On Aug 28, 2015, at 10:06 PM, John G. Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
For pete's sake, Angel. The point is that you don't have any factual reason to say that wearing headphones 8 hours a day is safe for your hearing. It may be, it may not.
You said it was safe as if it was a fact. It's just not.
On 08/28/2015 05:42 PM, Angel wrote:
As one grows older one finds experts can be paid, or not paid to say all sorts of things. Whatever is ones opinion, one can always find an expert to support it. Thank goodness there is common sense, and more choices than ear buds from which to choose. When choosing the sorts of head, or ear phones one might choose to wear. For however long one might need to wear them. Even in the rehabilitation field, there are experts who will say all sorts of things which are being proved wrong by us blind people living and working in the real world. It wasn't so many decades ago, perhaps five decades, when highly respected mobility professionals were instructing us blind travelers to use white canes extending only to sternum height. Since we blind people have become more autonomous, we have discovered longer length canes are far superior to the shorter ones previously suggested by mobility professionals. Whose main concern seemed to be how the use of the white cane would effect moving through crowded places. Not seeming to understand that common sense of the blind individual would dictate how best to use the white cane in whatever situation in which he might find himself. This is but a single example of many, where experts were proven wrong about so many things effecting the ordinary lives of others. An extreme example of the ability to purchase expert opinion is in the you-tube example below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKMn-_aQoPk In fact, it was people who dared to challenge expert opinion on just about everything who significantly changed the world. Their basic guide was common sense. Which isn't so common any longer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] headphones
Angel, common sense does not dictate that listening to speech at normal volumes for long periods of time via headphones doesn't damage hearing. If it were that simple, experts wouldn't be cautioning against the use of ear buds. Volume is one factor but not the only factor.
On 08/27/2015 09:07 PM, Angel wrote:
Common sense tells us overly loud music or sounds of other sorts will damage hearing. If heard over long periods of time. But, when even audiologists use head phones when conducting hearing tests. It seems to me to be a safe bet to use them for listening to sounds played at an average or at a lower volume level. I have been listening to ear and head phones at softer volumes for above 60 years, and they have done me no harm. Another advantage to listening to ones screen reader through head or ear phones is this: One can use ones audio speakers to listen to ones choice of music at the same time one does his computer work. Or one can record while multitasking. I often do that. I am doing it as I speak. There is a marvelous radio station which sort of plays 1960's acoustic folk music I enjoy particularly. It is the only one airing on the internet from the antartic. http://www.anetstation.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] headphones
How do you know that listening to normal speech using head or ear phones will not damage hearing?
On 08/27/2015 01:16 PM, Angel wrote:
Listening to normal speech using head or ear phones will not damage hearing. Personally I loath hearing screen reader through external speakers. When I know those using them, and this includes me, could just as easily listen to them through ear or head phones. Sighted people object to olfactory assaults with aromas such as cigarette smoke and the smells of various perfumes. They object to overly loud music as well. So why do we offend them, and do we offend each other by forcing them to listen to screen readers. Which often are played at faster speeds than they are use to hearing. Causing them to equate what is intelligible speech, for our ears, with gibberish. I don't even allow them to hear my cellular phones screen reader. For the same reason. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 12:18 PM Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] headphones (was: teraterm)
> I'd prefer not to wear headphones because I figure that can't be good > for your hearing. I know there are studies that show that listening to > loud music with headphones damages your hearing. I am unaware of any > studies that show that listening to speech at a normal level damages > your hearing. But why take the chance? > > Having said that though, I am wearing a headset right now. I don't > want my co-workers listening over my shoulder as it were. I know > they'd prefer not to listen but I figure sometimes they can't help it. > It's not just that I don't want them knowing my business. I'm not > going to listen to porn or anything. But if I'm struggling with > something, I don't want them over hearing. > > I've compromised on wearing my headset over just one ear. I always use > my left ear so if I lose hearing in that ear, it will probably be > because of the headset. > > > > > On 08/27/2015 10:07 AM, Scott Granados wrote: >> That would be a fine thing if someone compromised a machine because >> they over heard a password on a screen reader. Wow! Imagine that >> one. I’ve never thought about it much but that’s a pretty big risk. >> I always use headphones which is probably why I never thought about >> it but if someone really wanted to they could probably pick up the >> signal from my cans. >> >> >> >> Well >>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:04 AM, John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've been a linux user for a while now but when I used Windows and >>> openssh, I had a problem in that jaws would speak my password as I >>> typed it in. I wrote a jaws script to stop that. I don't know if it >>> would still work but here it is: >>> >>> http://www.math.wisc.edu/~jheim/pub/program.jss >>> >>> >>> On 08/27/2015 05:34 AM, Jen Bottom wrote: >>>> I have OpensSH installed on a Windows box at work and that works >>>> fine >>>> for connecting to other machines. >>>> >>>> I use a 'config' file in my user's '.ssh' directory for managing >>>> keys etc. >>>> >>>> I think iti came with GitBash, but you might well be able to get it >>>> via Chocolaty, if you kike that sort of package manager, or just >>>> download it from the net. >>>> >>>> I used to use Putty for connecting in when working at home, but I >>>> found it a lot of faff. Give me a nice config file any day :) >>>> >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Jen! >>>> >>>> On 8/24/15, Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> wrote: >>>>> Emphasis on the simple--they don't provide the insert-q info. >>>>> >>>>> If you press ctrl-shft-r, they should toggle between reading and >>>>> ignoring >>>>> incoming text. >>>>> >>>>> The scripts are named "ssh" because that is what JFW is expecting >>>>> for this >>>>> program. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 24, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Steve Matzura <sm@noisynotes.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris: >>>>>> >>>>>> I downloaded your scripts and SecureCRT, but have a >>>>>> question/problem. >>>>>> All the scripts are for ssh, but the SecureCRT program isn't >>>>>> called >>>>>> that. How do I know they're in service, especially since I didn't >>>>>> find >>>>>> any I didn't find any ScriptFileName function, so I put one in, >>>>>> and >>>>>> when I press JAWS Key Q, JAWS tells me I'm running the default >>>>>> scripts. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:57:11 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use Secure CRT and some very simple JAWS scripts for screen >>>>>>> echo that I >>>>>>> wrote and >>>>>>> placed here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://chrisnestrud.com/projects/jfw/scrt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 07:33:21PM -0500, Brent Harding wrote: >>>>>>>> I think something broke after Jaws 12 or so. Teraterm wasn't >>>>>>>> bad with >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> simple modification I found on one of the Cavi archives on the >>>>>>>> net until >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> try to apply that to 13 and up, and it kind of falls apart. I >>>>>>>> think we >>>>>>>> probably have to find a different way to edit files on the >>>>>>>> remote >>>>>>>> machine >>>>>>>> though because we can't stay in Jaws 12 forever just for TT to >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> good. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Matzura" >>>>>>>> <sm@noisynotes.com> >>>>>>>> To: "Blind sysadmins list" >>>>>>>> <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 3:31 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] TeraTerm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's what I do with TT now. I'm trying to get away from that >>>>>>>> mess. >>>>>>>> TT often loses cursor track. I'm noticing the same thing with >>>>>>>> PUTTY. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:26:46 +0000, you wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Putty: use the jaws cursor to reed >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >>>>>>>>> Fr?n: Blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] F?r >>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>> Matzura >>>>>>>>> Skickat: den 17 augusti 2015 20:59 >>>>>>>>> Till: Blind sysadmins list >>>>>>>>> <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >>>>>>>>> ?mne: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] TeraTerm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How much better is putty with JAWS than TeraTerm? I tried it, >>>>>>>>> and found >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> have to read every line manuallly once I'm connected to the >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> system. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:33:50 +0000, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Go ahead and check out putty or secure CRT. Putty is free, >>>>>>>>>> Secure >>>>>>>>>> CRT >>>>>>>>>> is $99ish and has a jaws script that works with it. Putty is >>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>> though, supports ssh and lots of other protocols including >>>>>>>>>> serial. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Steve Matzura >>>>>>>>>>> <sm@noisynotes.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is there a better solution for ssh-ing than this? There's a >>>>>>>>>>> simple >>>>>>>>>>> JAWS script I use with it, but it has quirks and annoyances >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> make me wonder sometimes how I get anything at all done with >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>> Soon >>>>>>>>>>> as I get my Raspberry Pi set up as an ssh terminal, I'll >>>>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>>>> ditch the whole TeraTerm thing, but if there's something >>>>>>>>>>> better, or >>>>>>>>>>> something that can be changed in the script I have for it, >>>>>>>>>>> I'm all >>>>>>>>>>> about trying it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TIA >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Heim, jheim@math.wisc.edu, skype:john.g.heim >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >>> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list >> Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >> > > -- > John Heim, jheim@math.wisc.edu, skype:john.g.heim > > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list > Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins >
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