Hi, Likewise with the suggestion to download Adobe's PDF Reader. Surely if they baked in reading functionality it should have been accessible. Barry. Barry Toner "To leave the world a bit better; to know that one life has breathed easier because of you. This is to have succeeded" ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: 06 July 2015 09:18 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10 The comments make more interesting reading than the blog post. I think more in Microsoft need to be made aware of the problems users have been encountering with Windows 10 accessibility. I don't find it acceptable to be told that Windows 10 is fully accessible but hey by the way, you cant use newmetro apps or the new browser. Fine, we can use classic apps and internet Explorer 11 but that's just not good enough. On 04/07/2015, Christopher McMillan wrote:

Dear Fellow Sys Admins:

If any of your corporations are allowing devices to use Windows 10 here is the AT statement from Microsoft Chief Accessibility Officer.

Windows 10 upgrade considerations for screen reader and magnifier users

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2015/07/03/windows-10-up grade-considerations-for-screen-reader-and-magnifier-users.aspx

Take care Christopher McMillanCEEKTechnologyMSPartner for AccessibilityWindows 7 Windows 8.1 Build 9600Windows 10 Build 10163 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- Darragh Ó Héiligh Email: d@digitaldarragh.com Mobile: 0877670464 web: www.digitaldarragh.com _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi, Yeah have played about with both Server and Windows 10. Pritty much what I was expecting, the browser being the largest issue if people are being pushed towards it. Nothing else really to say. PDF reading has been there since Windows 8, and it is still Adobe that offers the best solution for screen reader users. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 06 July 2015 15:08 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10 The PDF reading functionality has been in Windows, and inaccessible, since Windows 8.1. Possibly Windows 8 but I’m not sure. Microsoft’s own XPS viewer app has never been accessible, so I really am not holding out much hope. The fact that the new browser is inaccessible is just plane silly, for Microsoft to be pushing everyone to the new browser and then saying, oh by the way, screen reader and magnifier users should stick to the old browser, in this day and age just shouldn’t be acceptable but hey. On a side note, has anyone looked at accessibility in Windows Server V.Next? When I checked it last it seemed much the same as 2012R2, AKA new Server Manager very difficult to impossible to use, older MMC tools still there and worked as always. Ryan

On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:19 AM, Barry Toner wrote:

Hi,

Likewise with the suggestion to download Adobe's PDF Reader. Surely if they baked in reading functionality it should have been accessible.

Barry.

Barry Toner "To leave the world a bit better; to know that one life has breathed easier because of you. This is to have succeeded" ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: 06 July 2015 09:18 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The comments make more interesting reading than the blog post. I think more in Microsoft need to be made aware of the problems users have been encountering with Windows 10 accessibility. I don't find it acceptable to be told that Windows 10 is fully accessible but hey by the way, you cant use newmetro apps or the new browser. Fine, we can use classic apps and internet Explorer 11 but that's just not good enough.

On 04/07/2015, Christopher McMillan wrote:

...

Dear Fellow Sys Admins:

If any of your corporations are allowing devices to use Windows 10 here is the AT statement from Microsoft Chief Accessibility Officer.

Windows 10 upgrade considerations for screen reader and magnifier users

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2015/07/03/windows-10-u p grade-considerations-for-screen-reader-and-magnifier-users.aspx

Take care Christopher McMillanCEEKTechnologyMSPartner for AccessibilityWindows 7 Windows 8.1 Build 9600Windows 10 Build 10163 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

--

Darragh Ó Héiligh Email: d@digitaldarragh.com Mobile: 0877670464 web: www.digitaldarragh.com

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

All, You have the guys name now. So start sending him emails. If they do no action, then leverage your company if they are happy to do so. If this fails, then there is only one open course of action. A lot of companies do make their lack of accessibility public for their software. Not sure what the legal scope here is. Sean

On 7 Jul 2015, at 12:14 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

Hi,

Yeah have played about with both Server and Windows 10. Pritty much what I was expecting, the browser being the largest issue if people are being pushed towards it. Nothing else really to say. PDF reading has been there since Windows 8, and it is still Adobe that offers the best solution for screen reader users.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 06 July 2015 15:08 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The PDF reading functionality has been in Windows, and inaccessible, since Windows 8.1. Possibly Windows 8 but I’m not sure. Microsoft’s own XPS viewer app has never been accessible, so I really am not holding out much hope. The fact that the new browser is inaccessible is just plane silly, for Microsoft to be pushing everyone to the new browser and then saying, oh by the way, screen reader and magnifier users should stick to the old browser, in this day and age just shouldn’t be acceptable but hey. On a side note, has anyone looked at accessibility in Windows Server V.Next? When I checked it last it seemed much the same as 2012R2, AKA new Server Manager very difficult to impossible to use, older MMC tools still there and worked as always. Ryan

...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:19 AM, Barry Toner wrote:

Hi,

Likewise with the suggestion to download Adobe's PDF Reader. Surely if they baked in reading functionality it should have been accessible.

Barry.

Barry Toner "To leave the world a bit better; to know that one life has breathed easier because of you. This is to have succeeded" ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: 06 July 2015 09:18 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The comments make more interesting reading than the blog post. I think more in Microsoft need to be made aware of the problems users have been encountering with Windows 10 accessibility. I don't find it acceptable to be told that Windows 10 is fully accessible but hey by the way, you cant use newmetro apps or the new browser. Fine, we can use classic apps and internet Explorer 11 but that's just not good enough.

On 04/07/2015, Christopher McMillan wrote:

...

Dear Fellow Sys Admins:

If any of your corporations are allowing devices to use Windows 10 here is the AT statement from Microsoft Chief Accessibility Officer.

Windows 10 upgrade considerations for screen reader and magnifier users

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2015/07/03/windows-10-u p grade-considerations-for-screen-reader-and-magnifier-users.aspx

Take care Christopher McMillanCEEKTechnologyMSPartner for AccessibilityWindows 7 Windows 8.1 Build 9600Windows 10 Build 10163 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

--

Darragh Ó Héiligh Email: d@digitaldarragh.com Mobile: 0877670464 web: www.digitaldarragh.com

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

That is a good direction. Leveraging your company via the microsoft account team has far more impact then doing it directly as an individual. My experience thus far I have not had any issues with using this approach. Microsoft will say that we are working on it. But it is then flagged that one of their corporate clients is querying the accessibility of their products. It might be your responsibility to chase it up on a periodic bases. If your I.T team gets access to the early releases of products, then see if you can check them out and join any pre-beta releases to provide input to Microsoft. This concept applies to any products. Sean

On 7 Jul 2015, at 3:09 pm, Ryan Shugart wrote:

I think the thing for me that makes the browser issue so concerning isn’t the Edge browser itself, but the engine. Pretty much any modern app that uses an HTML view, including the store itself, now uses the Edge engine, not the IE engine, so this makes a lot of apps inaccessible. I have an accessibility meeting with my company’s TAM later this month, and I think I’ll mention this to him and see what he does with it. Ryan

...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:14 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

Hi,

Yeah have played about with both Server and Windows 10. Pritty much what I was expecting, the browser being the largest issue if people are being pushed towards it. Nothing else really to say. PDF reading has been there since Windows 8, and it is still Adobe that offers the best solution for screen reader users.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 06 July 2015 15:08 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The PDF reading functionality has been in Windows, and inaccessible, since Windows 8.1. Possibly Windows 8 but I’m not sure. Microsoft’s own XPS viewer app has never been accessible, so I really am not holding out much hope. The fact that the new browser is inaccessible is just plane silly, for Microsoft to be pushing everyone to the new browser and then saying, oh by the way, screen reader and magnifier users should stick to the old browser, in this day and age just shouldn’t be acceptable but hey. On a side note, has anyone looked at accessibility in Windows Server V.Next? When I checked it last it seemed much the same as 2012R2, AKA new Server Manager very difficult to impossible to use, older MMC tools still there and worked as always. Ryan

...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:19 AM, Barry Toner wrote:

Hi,

Likewise with the suggestion to download Adobe's PDF Reader. Surely if they baked in reading functionality it should have been accessible.

Barry.

Barry Toner "To leave the world a bit better; to know that one life has breathed easier because of you. This is to have succeeded" ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: 06 July 2015 09:18 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The comments make more interesting reading than the blog post. I think more in Microsoft need to be made aware of the problems users have been encountering with Windows 10 accessibility. I don't find it acceptable to be told that Windows 10 is fully accessible but hey by the way, you cant use newmetro apps or the new browser. Fine, we can use classic apps and internet Explorer 11 but that's just not good enough.

On 04/07/2015, Christopher McMillan wrote:

...

Dear Fellow Sys Admins:

If any of your corporations are allowing devices to use Windows 10 here is the AT statement from Microsoft Chief Accessibility Officer.

Windows 10 upgrade considerations for screen reader and magnifier users

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2015/07/03/windows-10-u p grade-considerations-for-screen-reader-and-magnifier-users.aspx

Take care Christopher McMillanCEEKTechnologyMSPartner for AccessibilityWindows 7 Windows 8.1 Build 9600Windows 10 Build 10163 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

--

Darragh Ó Héiligh Email: d@digitaldarragh.com Mobile: 0877670464 web: www.digitaldarragh.com

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Not the first time I have heard that excuse. In my books, they are avoiding the issue. If it has customer facing, then this might be an angle. Sean

On 7 Jul 2015, at 11:52 pm, Ryan Shugart wrote:

Sean: I’ve been having monthly meetings with our TAM for well over a year now, this started when I started running into problems with SCCM, and the System Center suite is our normal focus but of course other products enter into the mix. He’s been good about getting me meetings with product managers and such, and I’ve even been able to do a few demos of just what the accessibility issues are, and I think to several of the PMs that’s been a huge inside. It has a hard time getting beyond that and into their priority queues to fix, the thing I keep hearing is they are aware of the problem, but they can’t justify fixing it at that point, many times they say that the code changes required to fix it run a high risk of breaking other parts of the product, that’s what I got with SCCM in any case. Not saying how true that actually is, that’s just the response. Ryan

...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:20 PM, Sean Murphy wrote:

That is a good direction. Leveraging your company via the microsoft account team has far more impact then doing it directly as an individual. My experience thus far I have not had any issues with using this approach. Microsoft will say that we are working on it. But it is then flagged that one of their corporate clients is querying the accessibility of their products. It might be your responsibility to chase it up on a periodic bases. If your I.T team gets access to the early releases of products, then see if you can check them out and join any pre-beta releases to provide input to Microsoft.

This concept applies to any products.

Sean

...

On 7 Jul 2015, at 3:09 pm, Ryan Shugart wrote:

I think the thing for me that makes the browser issue so concerning isn’t the Edge browser itself, but the engine. Pretty much any modern app that uses an HTML view, including the store itself, now uses the Edge engine, not the IE engine, so this makes a lot of apps inaccessible. I have an accessibility meeting with my company’s TAM later this month, and I think I’ll mention this to him and see what he does with it. Ryan

...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:14 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

Hi,

Yeah have played about with both Server and Windows 10. Pritty much what I was expecting, the browser being the largest issue if people are being pushed towards it. Nothing else really to say. PDF reading has been there since Windows 8, and it is still Adobe that offers the best solution for screen reader users.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 06 July 2015 15:08 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The PDF reading functionality has been in Windows, and inaccessible, since Windows 8.1. Possibly Windows 8 but I’m not sure. Microsoft’s own XPS viewer app has never been accessible, so I really am not holding out much hope. The fact that the new browser is inaccessible is just plane silly, for Microsoft to be pushing everyone to the new browser and then saying, oh by the way, screen reader and magnifier users should stick to the old browser, in this day and age just shouldn’t be acceptable but hey. On a side note, has anyone looked at accessibility in Windows Server V.Next? When I checked it last it seemed much the same as 2012R2, AKA new Server Manager very difficult to impossible to use, older MMC tools still there and worked as always. Ryan

...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:19 AM, Barry Toner wrote:

Hi,

Likewise with the suggestion to download Adobe's PDF Reader. Surely if they baked in reading functionality it should have been accessible.

Barry.

Barry Toner "To leave the world a bit better; to know that one life has breathed easier because of you. This is to have succeeded" ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: 06 July 2015 09:18 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Microsoft CAO Statement On Accessibility for AT with Windows 10

The comments make more interesting reading than the blog post. I think more in Microsoft need to be made aware of the problems users have been encountering with Windows 10 accessibility. I don't find it acceptable to be told that Windows 10 is fully accessible but hey by the way, you cant use newmetro apps or the new browser. Fine, we can use classic apps and internet Explorer 11 but that's just not good enough.

On 04/07/2015, Christopher McMillan wrote:

...

Dear Fellow Sys Admins:

If any of your corporations are allowing devices to use Windows 10 here is the AT statement from Microsoft Chief Accessibility Officer.

Windows 10 upgrade considerations for screen reader and magnifier users

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2015/07/03/windows-10-u p grade-considerations-for-screen-reader-and-magnifier-users.aspx

Take care Christopher McMillanCEEKTechnologyMSPartner for AccessibilityWindows 7 Windows 8.1 Build 9600Windows 10 Build 10163 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

--

Darragh Ó Héiligh Email: d@digitaldarragh.com Mobile: 0877670464 web: www.digitaldarragh.com

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins