I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Stephen, I think you need to read over my mail again. I did not take exception to Seroteks products. What I said was that it is irrisponsible to ask a company to purchase these products in addition to a remote access solution that they already have in place that has it's own licensing costs. This is in the context of applying for the job on equal merits compared to sighted applicants. I would argue that if RIM or any other package is required to enable a blind person to do their job efficiently then that person should take the responsibility of paying for this application. The responsibility should not be taken by the employer. Again, in case there is any confusion, I am not discrediting any product here. If RIM or any other application suits the employer and no alternative product is already installed then brilliant! Start from the ground up with accessible solutions. I know of one person on this list doing that very thing and I think his company are just fantastic! However, if you take a job and you find that their environment isn't completely accessible then in my opinion it is your responsibility to find and implement solutions that do not place a burden on your employer. I laughed at your suggestion that i write a guide to using Dameware. I have recorded tutorials for SCCM with Jaws, configuring administrative environments to be more accessible and general tips for administration with a screen reader. I have asked for contributions from other people both on this list, on twitter, facebook and my own websites. Not once has someone from here actually submitted anything. That's fine of course. I know that everyone is busy and document writing isn't exactly the most fun thing in the world to do. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:27 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> To all- As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone! Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources. Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful. I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products. Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware. I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader. Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM. I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice. It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works." This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hello, The sites at the following URL's contain documents and recordings I have contributed. A few recordings on Listen and Learn recordings were contributed by one or two very helpful listeners. www.blindsysadmins.com www.lalrecordings.com Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:54 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I would like to see your documentation you have written, and if its availabl from your web site, please send that. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:46 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Stephen, I think you need to read over my mail again. I did not take exception to Seroteks products. What I said was that it is irrisponsible to ask a company to purchase these products in addition to a remote access solution that they already have in place that has it's own licensing costs. This is in the context of applying for the job on equal merits compared to sighted applicants. I would argue that if RIM or any other package is required to enable a blind person to do their job efficiently then that person should take the responsibility of paying for this application. The responsibility should not be taken by the employer. Again, in case there is any confusion, I am not discrediting any product here. If RIM or any other application suits the employer and no alternative product is already installed then brilliant! Start from the ground up with accessible solutions. I know of one person on this list doing that very thing and I think his company are just fantastic! However, if you take a job and you find that their environment isn't completely accessible then in my opinion it is your responsibility to find and implement solutions that do not place a burden on your employer. I laughed at your suggestion that i write a guide to using Dameware. I have recorded tutorials for SCCM with Jaws, configuring administrative environments to be more accessible and general tips for administration with a screen reader. I have asked for contributions from other people both on this list, on twitter, facebook and my own websites. Not once has someone from here actually submitted anything. That's fine of course. I know that everyone is busy and document writing isn't exactly the most fun thing in the world to do. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:27 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> To all- As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone! Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources. Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful. I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products. Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware. I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader. Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM. I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice. It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works." This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer / Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais agusseanadh/ _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Stephen, I think you need to read over my mail again. I did not take exception to Seroteks products. What I said was that it is irrisponsible to ask a company to purchase these products in addition to a remote access solution that they already have in place that has it's own licensing costs. This is in the context of applying for the job on equal merits compared to sighted applicants. I would argue that if RIM or any other package is required to enable a blind person to do their job efficiently then that person should take the responsibility of paying for this application. The responsibility should not be taken by the employer. Again, in case there is any confusion, I am not discrediting any product here. If RIM or any other application suits the employer and no alternative product is already installed then brilliant! Start from the ground up with accessible solutions. I know of one person on this list doing that very thing and I think his company are just fantastic! However, if you take a job and you find that their environment isn't completely accessible then in my opinion it is your responsibility to find and implement solutions that do not place a burden on your employer. I laughed at your suggestion that i write a guide to using Dameware. I have recorded tutorials for SCCM with Jaws, configuring administrative environments to be more accessible and general tips for administration with a screen reader. I have asked for contributions from other people both on this list, on twitter, facebook and my own websites. Not once has someone from here actually submitted anything. That's fine of course. I know that everyone is busy and document writing isn't exactly the most fun thing in the world to do. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:27 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> To all- As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone! Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources. Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful. I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products. Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware. I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader. Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM. I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice. It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works." This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Bary, haha. I like your end sentence there. Well, because I have no intention of staying late I unfortunately have to keep this one short. I actually wrote the really long one on the way to work this morning. Not bad for 7AM was it? I have no experience with the agency you've refered to. Here we don't have any such assistance as far as I know. However, I have absolutely no problem with them helping because as you picked up yourself, it's not placing a burden on the company so from the companies perspective they are not giving special compansation for a blind employee. I really have to go but just one more thing. Unfortuantely I have to ask for help. I cant ask for it during business hours because it would go against my own opinions and beliefs but when not in a professional environment I have absolutely no problem asking for help from family and friends. I'm not saying for a second that it's bad to ask for help. Just for me, I don't want to do this in a professional environment where I am working at the same level as everyone else with the expectation that when promotions arise I can target them with the same sense of entitlement and aspiration as anyone else here. Up to a year ago I got on very well with about five people in this company so if I was really stuck I knew that I could quietly ask them for a hand during lunch. that flexability has gone with downsizing though. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Barry Toner" <Barry.Toner@clanmil.org.uk> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 15:49 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi, I've just started a Helpdesk position and we're considering RIM. Let me say from the outset. I don’t' want to cost my company money unnecessarily. When a guy came out to perform my Access To Work assessment I turned some of his suggestions down in front of my manager. £130 for a Dictaphone. Why? I've my own Victor Reader Stream and an iPhone. Bumpons for labelling things, I took myself out at lunchtime and bought my own. A Pen Friend for sticking labels on software/hardware I only use myself I purchased myself. As we're going to be starting Asset Management the assessor had recommended the ID Mate. No way I said, it's wildly expensive not to mention ugly as hell. I've sourced a barcode reader that is a third of the price and can be used by all in the department. The difference is I'll use the free iPhone app which I was able to confirm works with Voice Over to get the output blue toothed. I have shown them that I'm not going to wait around for anyone if there's any way I can do something on my own, or at least give it my damndist. An example... We use soft phones. My manager plunked the paper manual down on my desk with the promise we'd go through it the next day. By lunchtime as I saw he was busy I found the PDF version online, it wasn’t' readable so I ran it through an OCR and tought myself how to use the thing. I basically hit a button until I found what section of the manual it was referring too, then worked through it logically using that as my base. Two days later he saw the manual , slapped his head and said, "I completely forgot". I shrugged and told him I found the manual online and figured it out myself. I know this type of thing will not only prepare me personally for my future career, but as my manager does seem to be such a good guy who thinks of employees as people, should set me in good standing for when things do get more difficult. My employer has told me that during the recruitment process no special consideration was given for me at all. It was only when they saw the lengths I was going to they then felt confident in offering out a helping hand, but it was my motivation and attitude that triggered this. He actually describes it like seeing someone with their hands full, setting each item down to open a door for themselves, and stepping in to say, here I'll get that for you. On the day of my interview, I'd no idea they'd installed NVDA on a computer for me. I didn't ask for it. I only told them I was Blind because I had to legally as part of the Equality questionnaire during the application process. I turned up with NVDA on a pen drive, a USB soundcard and headphones as I knew I would be expected to carry out a practical task prior to the interview. In fact now I remember, I cleared this with HR before hand, as I know some workplaces can have quite strict I T Security policies. I explained that I wasn't asking for considerations, just not assuming I could come in and do what I wanted. My situation is thus. We've 23 external pc's for housing schemes, and 5 end-user internal. The externals will be increasing over time. In HQ where I work the end-users have Citrix Thin diskless clients. Therefore I need two products to access these systems. JFW with a Citrix licence and a package to access PC's I'm not in front of. I'm more than happy to consider other products that will allow me to have Remote Desktop access with speech feedback, even before we implement RIM. I understand the thing with Rim is that it can be used by sighted I T staff, so in this sense, it's an inclusive product. My Network Admin isn't that happy about putting NVDA on the PC's and will take some convincing, let alone me asking him to put JFW or Win Eyes on each machine with they're sometimes flaky Video Intercept drivers. I must say though the cost of £500 a year for the subscription + whatever the setup fee is for RIM isn't very attractive for any company's purse strings. Especially when a sighted technician can use Google Chrome with the VNC plug-in for free. Government through Access To Work won't pay for RIM because it has a visual element which allows sighted staff to use it too. So in this aspect inclusion sortive backfires, as the company will have to take the hit if they opt for this solution. I can speak frankly with my manager and have told him I will investigate other options. The issue about equal access is a thorny one. I'm a huge self-advocate but it's a subject where you can take it to such extremes. I believe we do need some considerations and accommodation's in all areas of our lives, and the work place shouldn’t' be any different. So to say 0 consideration is given is a bit far fetched. We might dress it up in different ways, but a black cat put inside a brown box, is still a black cat. On one hand I do feel it's unfair for a company to be out of vast amounts of money for this or that adaptive product. On the other hand a dedicated Blind Sys Admin could arguably make up for that in quality of work. On another hand if we said, 0 accommodation in the work place how many of us would be employed? The numbers are shockingly low as it is. My experience of people in the past who cry they do this or that on their own often don't add the little bits of help they get here or there into the discussion. Again this isnt' targeted at anyone on here, and I really mean that. I'm actually thinking of this extremely talented Sys Admin I used to know in the US he really was a very smart guy and I'd love to achieve at 50 years old what he did at 25! The thing was he would never talk about the sighted roommate he had. Who could nip in and read a screen to him of a box that had no speech, and wasn't letting him SSH or anything to. This person could also provide eyes to get him up and running with things initially. Sure he learned how to do things independently after that, where possible. However, he never acknowledged these bits of help he got. Leaving allot of us to assume he was Superman. Which left some of us younger techs 10 years ago feeling a mix of awe, and not a little frustration because we didn’t' have that support at hand. It's important to try and source help and I've done this my whole life. There's been times though where I've simply not had anyone about who was willing to help. I've popped in to neighbours houses with a bottle of wine and a laptop and asked them to read one screen, then left them with the bottle of wine. I've put stuff in a back pack and headed nto town to find a bar. These solutions aren't always possible given every possible scenario though. So I'd argue that time is in fact a consideration that at times may need to be given. I know I've impressed the guys here because I was waiting for an hour one day last week on the Net Admin dropping off an anti-virus disc for me to install onto a laptop I was prepping for him. Given it's week 3 and I've still to get sitting down with the guy, I wasn’t' expecting it anytime soon. He's extremely busy and rather than sit there with my arms the same length, I harnessed the puppy up and went a wondering and asked people where his office was. I wouldn't accept anyones arms because I wanted to turn up at his door on my own. When I got there, he was so nice and apologetic. I smiled, shrugged and said, no worries I know you're busy. Darragh, please, please please please I'm genuinely interested on your views towards organisations such as the UK's Access To Work. It's so difficult to express emotions or motive in email, so let me say out right I'm feeling very calm, and am honestly interested your opinion to this question. Do you not feel that organisations like Access To Work who are a government ran body that provide financial assistance should be there to help? Or is it simply the financial burden put upon the company you take exception to? Of course in the context that they are replacing a solution they've already put money and resources into implementing. If your answer is yes, then how about other forms of access? I may be straying off the path here, but at a high level I feel this example might have merit. If someone is in a wheel chair and access to the building is via steps who should have the burden to pay for the installation of a ramp and maintenance of said ramp? The company or the person in the chair? Feel free to thwack your keyboard or me if you think I'm comparing appel's and orange's here. Or point out why this example doesn't fit in with what you're saying. I feel this could be a really productive conversation and am pleased that no one has taken anything personally. There are many place's online I could see this topic exploding into flames and it's nice to see we can all talk like adults and professionals here. Opinions can be given, and certainly agreed or disagreed on, but that's life. I'm not always happy when someone disagrees with me, but there's no point throwing fits and burning bridges if it is at all avoidable In the interest of being a responsible employee I'm now going to have to stay in work an extra half hour, which is how long it took me to write this reply! Though I am really interested in hearing back on people's views of different Remote access solutions. Regards, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 06 November 2012 14:27 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers,and a hlp desk support position To all- As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone! Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources. Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful. I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products. Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware. I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader. Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM. I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice. It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works." This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Darragh, u wrote: "In the event that I have no way of getting out of using something then I get someone to help.  That usually means logging in late at night with a friend who can read the screen.  This happens at the moment.  I need to produce reports using the Mcafee web reporter. This tool doesn't work for me at all so every Friday morning I get up early and I ask my girlfriend to do the clicking." I *really* don't mean to cause trouble on list. But Darragh, if I were your employer, I might have real difficulties w/that, i.e. the possibility of exposing data I don't want others to know outside the company. I think one always has to be careful regarding requests for help outside the company, because of the possibility of putting confidential data at risk. I'm not at all saying you're doing that, but it is a consideration, & doing that may go against the terms of employment. Again, I'm not speaking of your situation specifically, but I am trying to talk in generalities about what could happen by seeking help from some1 outside a company that hasn't been authorized. To be honest w/u, (& I'm just a small business owner), but I've nonetheless fired folks for revealing company matters to outside sources. Just some thoughts to throw out there into the mix. This has been, IMO, a very good discussion, done w/a great deal of sensitivity & not w/the flaming I've seen on similar topics (generally on other lists). Thanks for that, all--seriously--I've really been very interested in reading every1's thoughts on this, & I hope that my small contribution has adhered to that spirit. On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote:

Bary,

haha. I like your end sentence there. Well, because I have no intention of staying late I unfortunately have to keep this one short. I actually wrote the really long one on the way to work this morning. Not bad for 7AM was it?

I have no experience with the agency you've refered to. Here we don't have any such assistance as far as I know. However, I have absolutely no problem with them helping because as you picked up yourself, it's not placing a burden on the company so from the companies perspective they are not giving special compansation for a blind employee.

I really have to go but just one more thing. Unfortuantely I have to ask for help. I cant ask for it during business hours because it would go against my own opinions and beliefs but when not in a professional environment I have absolutely no problem asking for help from family and friends. I'm not saying for a second that it's bad to ask for help. Just for me, I don't want to do this in a professional environment where I am working at the same level as everyone else with the expectation that when promotions arise I can target them with the same sense of entitlement and aspiration as anyone else here. Up to a year ago I got on very well with about five people in this company so if I was really stuck I knew that I could quietly ask them for a hand during lunch. that flexability has gone with downsizing though.

Regards

Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" <Barry.Toner@clanmil.org.uk> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 15:49 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi,

I've just started a Helpdesk position and we're considering RIM.

Let me say from the outset. I don’t' want to cost my company money unnecessarily. When a guy came out to perform my Access To Work assessment I turned some of his suggestions down in front of my manager. £130 for a Dictaphone. Why? I've my own Victor Reader Stream and an iPhone. Bumpons for labelling things, I took myself out at lunchtime and bought my own. A Pen Friend for sticking labels on software/hardware I only use myself I purchased myself. As we're going to be starting Asset Management the assessor had recommended the ID Mate. No way I said, it's wildly expensive not to mention ugly as hell. I've sourced a barcode reader that is a third of the price and can be used by all in the department. The difference is I'll use the free iPhone app which I was able to confirm works with Voice Over to get the output blue toothed.

I have shown them that I'm not going to wait around for anyone if there's any way I can do something on my own, or at least give it my damndist. An example... We use soft phones. My manager plunked the paper manual down on my desk with the promise we'd go through it the next day. By lunchtime as I saw he was busy I found the PDF version online, it wasn’t' readable so I ran it through an OCR and tought myself how to use the thing. I basically hit a button until I found what section of the manual it was referring too, then worked through it logically using that as my base. Two days later he saw the manual , slapped his head and said, "I completely forgot". I shrugged and told him I found the manual online and figured it out myself. I know this type of thing will not only prepare me personally for my future career, but as my manager does seem to be such a good guy who thinks of employees as people, should set me in good standing for when things do get more difficult.

My employer has told me that during the recruitment process no special consideration was given for me at all. It was only when they saw the lengths I was going to they then felt confident in offering out a helping hand, but it was my motivation and attitude that triggered this. He actually describes it like seeing someone with their hands full, setting each item down to open a door for themselves, and stepping in to say, here I'll get that for you.

On the day of my interview, I'd no idea they'd installed NVDA on a computer for me. I didn't ask for it. I only told them I was Blind because I had to legally as part of the Equality questionnaire during the application process. I turned up with NVDA on a pen drive, a USB soundcard and headphones as I knew I would be expected to carry out a practical task prior to the interview. In fact now I remember, I cleared this with HR before hand, as I know some workplaces can have quite strict I T Security policies. I explained that I wasn't asking for considerations, just not assuming I could come in and do what I wanted.

My situation is thus. We've 23 external pc's for housing schemes, and 5 end-user internal. The externals will be increasing over time. In HQ where I work the end-users have Citrix Thin diskless clients. Therefore I need two products to access these systems. JFW with a Citrix licence and a package to access PC's I'm not in front of. I'm more than happy to consider other products that will allow me to have Remote Desktop access with speech feedback, even before we implement RIM. I understand the thing with Rim is that it can be used by sighted I T staff, so in this sense, it's an inclusive product.

My Network Admin isn't that happy about putting NVDA on the PC's and will take some convincing, let alone me asking him to put JFW or Win Eyes on each machine with they're sometimes flaky Video Intercept drivers. I must say though the cost of £500 a year for the subscription + whatever the setup fee is for RIM isn't very attractive for any company's purse strings. Especially when a sighted technician can use Google Chrome with the VNC plug-in for free. Government through Access To Work won't pay for RIM because it has a visual element which allows sighted staff to use it too. So in this aspect inclusion sortive backfires, as the company will have to take the hit if they opt for this solution. I can speak frankly with my manager and have told him I will investigate other options.

The issue about equal access is a thorny one. I'm a huge self-advocate but it's a subject where you can take it to such extremes. I believe we do need some considerations and accommodation's in all areas of our lives, and the work place shouldn’t' be any different. So to say 0 consideration is given is a bit far fetched. We might dress it up in different ways, but a black cat put inside a brown box, is still a black cat.

On one hand I do feel it's unfair for a company to be out of vast amounts of money for this or that adaptive product. On the other hand a dedicated Blind Sys Admin could arguably make up for that in quality of work. On another hand if we said, 0 accommodation in the work place how many of us would be employed? The numbers are shockingly low as it is. My experience of people in the past who cry they do this or that on their own often don't add the little bits of help they get here or there into the discussion. Again this isnt' targeted at anyone on here, and I really mean that. I'm actually thinking of this extremely talented Sys Admin I used to know in the US he really was a very smart guy and I'd love to achieve at 50 years old what he did at 25! The thing was he would never talk about the sighted roommate he had. Who could nip in and read a screen to him of a box that had no speech, and wasn't letting him SSH or anything to. This person could also provide eyes to get him up and running with things initially. Sure he learned how to do things independently after that, where possible. However, he never acknowledged these bits of help he got. Leaving allot of us to assume he was Superman. Which left some of us younger techs 10 years ago feeling a mix of awe, and not a little frustration because we didn’t' have that support at hand. It's important to try and source help and I've done this my whole life. There's been times though where I've simply not had anyone about who was willing to help. I've popped in to neighbours houses with a bottle of wine and a laptop and asked them to read one screen, then left them with the bottle of wine. I've put stuff in a back pack and headed nto town to find a bar. These solutions aren't always possible given every possible scenario though. So I'd argue that time is in fact a consideration that at times may need to be given.

I know I've impressed the guys here because I was waiting for an hour one day last week on the Net Admin dropping off an anti-virus disc for me to install onto a laptop I was prepping for him. Given it's week 3 and I've still to get sitting down with the guy, I wasn’t' expecting it anytime soon. He's extremely busy and rather than sit there with my arms the same length, I harnessed the puppy up and went a wondering and asked people where his office was. I wouldn't accept anyones arms because I wanted to turn up at his door on my own. When I got there, he was so nice and apologetic. I smiled, shrugged and said, no worries I know you're busy.

Darragh, please, please please please I'm genuinely interested on your views towards organisations such as the UK's Access To Work. It's so difficult to express emotions or motive in email, so let me say out right I'm feeling very calm, and am honestly interested your opinion to this question. Do you not feel that organisations like Access To Work who are a government ran body that provide financial assistance should be there to help? Or is it simply the financial burden put upon the company you take exception to? Of course in the context that they are replacing a solution they've already put money and resources into implementing.

If your answer is yes, then how about other forms of access? I may be straying off the path here, but at a high level I feel this example might have merit. If someone is in a wheel chair and access to the building is via steps who should have the burden to pay for the installation of a ramp and maintenance of said ramp? The company or the person in the chair? Feel free to thwack your keyboard or me if you think I'm comparing appel's and orange's here. Or point out why this example doesn't fit in with what you're saying.

I feel this could be a really productive conversation and am pleased that no one has taken anything personally. There are many place's online I could see this topic exploding into flames and it's nice to see we can all talk like adults and professionals here. Opinions can be given, and certainly agreed or disagreed on, but that's life. I'm not always happy when someone disagrees with me, but there's no point throwing fits and burning bridges if it is at all avoidable

In the interest of being a responsible employee I'm now going to have to stay in work an extra half hour, which is how long it took me to write this reply! Though I am really interested in hearing back on people's views of different Remote access solutions.

Regards, Barry.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 06 November 2012 14:27 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers,and a hlp desk support position

To all-

As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone!

Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources.

Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful.

I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products.

Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware.

I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader.

Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM.

I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice.

It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works."

This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group.

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year.

This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers,

and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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-- Blame the computer--why not? It can't defend itself & occasionally might even be the culprit Jackie McBride Ask Me Computer Questions at: www.pcinquirer.com Jaws Scripting training materials: www.screenreaderscripting.com homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net

Bary,

haha. I like your end sentence there. Well, because I have no intention of staying late I unfortunately have to keep this one short. I actually wrote the really long one on the way to work this morning. Not bad for 7AM was it?

I have no experience with the agency you've refered to. Here we don't have any such assistance as far as I know. However, I have absolutely no problem with them helping because as you picked up yourself, it's not placing a burden on the company so from the companies perspective they are not giving special compansation for a blind employee.

I really have to go but just one more thing. Unfortuantely I have to ask for help. I cant ask for it during business hours because it would go against my own opinions and beliefs but when not in a professional environment I have absolutely no problem asking for help from family and friends. I'm not saying for a second that it's bad to ask for help. Just for me, I don't want to do this in a professional environment where I am working at the same level as everyone else with the expectation that when promotions arise I can target them with the same sense of entitlement and aspiration as anyone else here. Up to a year ago I got on very well with about five people in this company so if I was really stuck I knew that I could quietly ask them for a hand during lunch. that flexability has gone with downsizing though.

Regards

Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" <Barry.Toner@clanmil.org.uk> To: "Blind sysadmins list" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 15:49 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

Hi,

I've just started a Helpdesk position and we're considering RIM.

Let me say from the outset. I don’t' want to cost my company money unnecessarily. When a guy came out to perform my Access To Work assessment I turned some of his suggestions down in front of my manager. £130 for a Dictaphone. Why? I've my own Victor Reader Stream and an iPhone. Bumpons for labelling things, I took myself out at lunchtime and bought my own. A Pen Friend for sticking labels on software/hardware I only use myself I purchased myself. As we're going to be starting Asset Management the assessor had recommended the ID Mate. No way I said, it's wildly expensive not to mention ugly as hell. I've sourced a barcode reader that is a third of the price and can be used by all in the department. The difference is I'll use the free iPhone app which I was able to confirm works with Voice Over to get the output blue toothed.

I have shown them that I'm not going to wait around for anyone if

any way I can do something on my own, or at least give it my damndist. An example... We use soft phones. My manager plunked the paper manual down on my desk with the promise we'd go through it the next day. By lunchtime as I saw he was busy I found the PDF version online, it wasn’t' readable so I ran it through an OCR and tought myself how to use the thing. I basically hit a button until I found what section of the manual it was referring too, then worked through it logically using that as my base. Two days later he saw the manual , slapped his head and said, "I completely forgot". I shrugged and told him I found the manual online and figured it out myself. I know this type of thing will not only prepare me

for my future career, but as my manager does seem to be such a good guy who thinks of employees as people, should set me in good standing for when things do get more difficult.

My employer has told me that during the recruitment process no special consideration was given for me at all. It was only when they saw the lengths I was going to they then felt confident in offering out a helping hand, but it was my motivation and attitude that triggered this. He actually describes it like seeing someone with their hands full, setting each item down to open a door for themselves, and stepping in to say, here I'll get that for you.

On the day of my interview, I'd no idea they'd installed NVDA on a computer for me. I didn't ask for it. I only told them I was Blind because I had to legally as part of the Equality questionnaire during

application process. I turned up with NVDA on a pen drive, a USB soundcard and headphones as I knew I would be expected to carry out a practical task prior to the interview. In fact now I remember, I cleared this with HR before hand, as I know some workplaces can have quite strict I T Security policies. I explained that I wasn't asking for considerations, just not assuming I could come in and do what I wanted.

My situation is thus. We've 23 external pc's for housing schemes, and 5 end-user internal. The externals will be increasing over time. In HQ where I work the end-users have Citrix Thin diskless clients. Therefore I need two products to access these systems. JFW with a Citrix licence and a package to access PC's I'm not in front of. I'm more than happy to consider other products that will allow me to have Remote Desktop access with speech feedback, even before we implement RIM. I understand the thing with Rim is that it can be used by sighted I T staff, so in this sense, it's an inclusive product.

My Network Admin isn't that happy about putting NVDA on the PC's and will take some convincing, let alone me asking him to put JFW or Win Eyes on each machine with they're sometimes flaky Video Intercept drivers. I must say though the cost of £500 a year for the subscription + whatever the setup fee is for RIM isn't very attractive for any company's purse strings. Especially when a sighted technician can use Google Chrome with the VNC plug-in for free. Government through Access To Work won't pay for RIM because it has a visual element which allows sighted staff to use it too. So in this aspect inclusion sortive backfires, as the company will have to take the hit if they opt for this solution. I can speak frankly with my manager and have told him I will investigate other options.

The issue about equal access is a thorny one. I'm a huge self-advocate but it's a subject where you can take it to such extremes. I believe we do need some considerations and accommodation's in all areas of our

and the work place shouldn’t' be any different. So to say 0 consideration is given is a bit far fetched. We might dress it up in different ways, but a black cat put inside a brown box, is still a black cat.

On one hand I do feel it's unfair for a company to be out of vast amounts of money for this or that adaptive product. On the other hand a dedicated Blind Sys Admin could arguably make up for that in quality of work. On another hand if we said, 0 accommodation in the work place how many of us would be employed? The numbers are shockingly low as it is. My experience of people in the past who cry they do this or that on their own often don't add the little bits of help they get here or there into the discussion. Again this isnt' targeted at anyone on here, and I really mean that. I'm actually thinking of this extremely talented Sys Admin I used to know in the US he really was a very smart guy and I'd love to achieve at 50 years old what he did at 25! The thing was he would never talk about the sighted roommate he had. Who could nip in and read a screen to him of a box that had no speech, and wasn't letting him SSH or anything to. This person could also provide eyes to get him up and running with things initially. Sure he learned how to do things independently after that, where possible. However, he never acknowledged these bits of help he got. Leaving allot of us to assume he was Superman. Which left some of us younger techs 10 years ago feeling a mix of awe, and not a little frustration because we didn’t' have that support at hand. It's important to try and source help and I've done this my whole life. There's been times though where I've simply not had anyone about who was willing to help. I've popped in to neighbours houses with a bottle of wine and a laptop and asked them to read one screen, then left them with the bottle of wine. I've put stuff in a back pack and headed nto town to find a bar. These solutions aren't always possible given every possible scenario though. So I'd argue that time is in fact a consideration that at times may need to be given.

I know I've impressed the guys here because I was waiting for an hour one day last week on the Net Admin dropping off an anti-virus disc for me to install onto a laptop I was prepping for him. Given it's week 3 and I've still to get sitting down with the guy, I wasn’t' expecting it anytime soon. He's extremely busy and rather than sit there with my arms the same length, I harnessed the puppy up and went a wondering and asked people where his office was. I wouldn't accept anyones arms because I wanted to turn up at his door on my own. When I got there, he was so nice and apologetic. I smiled, shrugged and said, no worries I know you're busy.

Darragh, please, please please please I'm genuinely interested on your views towards organisations such as the UK's Access To Work. It's so difficult to express emotions or motive in email, so let me say out right I'm feeling very calm, and am honestly interested your opinion to this question. Do you not feel that organisations like Access To Work who are a government ran body that provide financial assistance should be there to help? Or is it simply the financial burden put upon the company you take exception to? Of course in the context that they are replacing a solution they've already put money and resources into implementing.

If your answer is yes, then how about other forms of access? I may be straying off the path here, but at a high level I feel this example might have merit. If someone is in a wheel chair and access to the building is via steps who should have the burden to pay for the installation of a ramp and maintenance of said ramp? The company or the person in the chair? Feel free to thwack your keyboard or me if you think I'm comparing appel's and orange's here. Or point out why this example doesn't fit in with what you're saying.

I feel this could be a really productive conversation and am pleased

no one has taken anything personally. There are many place's online I could see this topic exploding into flames and it's nice to see we can all talk like adults and professionals here. Opinions can be given, and certainly agreed or disagreed on, but that's life. I'm not always happy when someone disagrees with me, but there's no point throwing fits and burning bridges if it is at all avoidable

In the interest of being a responsible employee I'm now going to have to stay in work an extra half hour, which is how long it took me to write this reply! Though I am really interested in hearing back on people's views of different Remote access solutions.

Regards, Barry.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 06 November 2012 14:27 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers,and a hlp desk support position

To all-

As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone!

Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources.

Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful.

I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products.

Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware.

I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader.

Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines,

network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM.

I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice.

It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works."

This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all

facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group.

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of

workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year.

This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure

my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to

Jackie, Because my girlfriend works in a connected area she has signed the same NDA's that I have therefore has been approved for access to the same sensitive material. I completely understand where your coming from though and because I have access to some very vital data I have to be very careful. Even using a laptop on the train can be dodgy so we have screens that reduce the viewing angle. Plus there's the added benefit that I can turn mine off but that's off the topic a bit. ON the topic of the documentation and recordings, let me fix something that has gone a bit strange on my server. The sites that I upload content to are www.lalrecordings.com and www.blindsysadmins.com Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Jackie McBride <abletec@gmail.com> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 18:39 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Darragh, u wrote: "In the event that I have no way of getting out of using something then I get someone to help. That usually means logging in late at night with a friend who can read the screen. This happens at the moment. I need to produce reports using the Mcafee web reporter. This tool doesn't work for me at all so every Friday morning I get up early and I ask my girlfriend to do the clicking." I *really* don't mean to cause trouble on list. But Darragh, if I were your employer, I might have real difficulties w/that, i.e. the possibility of exposing data I don't want others to know outside the company. I think one always has to be careful regarding requests for help outside the company, because of the possibility of putting confidential data at risk. I'm not at all saying you're doing that, but it is a consideration, & doing that may go against the terms of employment. Again, I'm not speaking of your situation specifically, but I am trying to talk in generalities about what could happen by seeking help from some1 outside a company that hasn't been authorized. To be honest w/u, (& I'm just a small business owner), but I've nonetheless fired folks for revealing company matters to outside sources. Just some thoughts to throw out there into the mix. This has been, IMO, a very good discussion, done w/a great deal of sensitivity & not w/the flaming I've seen on similar topics (generally on other lists). Thanks for that, all--seriously--I've really been very interested in reading every1's thoughts on this, & I hope that my small contribution has adhered to that spirit. On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote: there's personally the lives, that the the these that play

on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers,

and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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-- Blame the computer--why not? It can't defend itself & occasionally might even be the culprit Jackie McBride Ask Me Computer Questions at: www.pcinquirer.com Jaws Scripting training materials: www.screenreaderscripting.com homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Hi, I've just started a Helpdesk position and we're considering RIM. Let me say from the outset. I don’t' want to cost my company money unnecessarily. When a guy came out to perform my Access To Work assessment I turned some of his suggestions down in front of my manager. £130 for a Dictaphone. Why? I've my own Victor Reader Stream and an iPhone. Bumpons for labelling things, I took myself out at lunchtime and bought my own. A Pen Friend for sticking labels on software/hardware I only use myself I purchased myself. As we're going to be starting Asset Management the assessor had recommended the ID Mate. No way I said, it's wildly expensive not to mention ugly as hell. I've sourced a barcode reader that is a third of the price and can be used by all in the department. The difference is I'll use the free iPhone app which I was able to confirm works with Voice Over to get the output blue toothed. I have shown them that I'm not going to wait around for anyone if there's any way I can do something on my own, or at least give it my damndist. An example... We use soft phones. My manager plunked the paper manual down on my desk with the promise we'd go through it the next day. By lunchtime as I saw he was busy I found the PDF version online, it wasn’t' readable so I ran it through an OCR and tought myself how to use the thing. I basically hit a button until I found what section of the manual it was referring too, then worked through it logically using that as my base. Two days later he saw the manual , slapped his head and said, "I completely forgot". I shrugged and told him I found the manual online and figured it out myself. I know this type of thing will not only prepare me personally for my future career, but as my manager does seem to be such a good guy who thinks of employees as people, should set me in good standing for when things do get more difficult. My employer has told me that during the recruitment process no special consideration was given for me at all. It was only when they saw the lengths I was going to they then felt confident in offering out a helping hand, but it was my motivation and attitude that triggered this. He actually describes it like seeing someone with their hands full, setting each item down to open a door for themselves, and stepping in to say, here I'll get that for you. On the day of my interview, I'd no idea they'd installed NVDA on a computer for me. I didn't ask for it. I only told them I was Blind because I had to legally as part of the Equality questionnaire during the application process. I turned up with NVDA on a pen drive, a USB soundcard and headphones as I knew I would be expected to carry out a practical task prior to the interview. In fact now I remember, I cleared this with HR before hand, as I know some workplaces can have quite strict I T Security policies. I explained that I wasn't asking for considerations, just not assuming I could come in and do what I wanted. My situation is thus. We've 23 external pc's for housing schemes, and 5 end-user internal. The externals will be increasing over time. In HQ where I work the end-users have Citrix Thin diskless clients. Therefore I need two products to access these systems. JFW with a Citrix licence and a package to access PC's I'm not in front of. I'm more than happy to consider other products that will allow me to have Remote Desktop access with speech feedback, even before we implement RIM. I understand the thing with Rim is that it can be used by sighted I T staff, so in this sense, it's an inclusive product. My Network Admin isn't that happy about putting NVDA on the PC's and will take some convincing, let alone me asking him to put JFW or Win Eyes on each machine with they're sometimes flaky Video Intercept drivers. I must say though the cost of £500 a year for the subscription + whatever the setup fee is for RIM isn't very attractive for any company's purse strings. Especially when a sighted technician can use Google Chrome with the VNC plug-in for free. Government through Access To Work won't pay for RIM because it has a visual element which allows sighted staff to use it too. So in this aspect inclusion sortive backfires, as the company will have to take the hit if they opt for this solution. I can speak frankly with my manager and have told him I will investigate other options. The issue about equal access is a thorny one. I'm a huge self-advocate but it's a subject where you can take it to such extremes. I believe we do need some considerations and accommodation's in all areas of our lives, and the work place shouldn’t' be any different. So to say 0 consideration is given is a bit far fetched. We might dress it up in different ways, but a black cat put inside a brown box, is still a black cat. On one hand I do feel it's unfair for a company to be out of vast amounts of money for this or that adaptive product. On the other hand a dedicated Blind Sys Admin could arguably make up for that in quality of work. On another hand if we said, 0 accommodation in the work place how many of us would be employed? The numbers are shockingly low as it is. My experience of people in the past who cry they do this or that on their own often don't add the little bits of help they get here or there into the discussion. Again this isnt' targeted at anyone on here, and I really mean that. I'm actually thinking of this extremely talented Sys Admin I used to know in the US he really was a very smart guy and I'd love to achieve at 50 years old what he did at 25! The thing was he would never talk about the sighted roommate he had. Who could nip in and read a screen to him of a box that had no speech, and wasn't letting him SSH or anything to. This person could also provide eyes to get him up and running with things initially. Sure he learned how to do things independently after that, where possible. However, he never acknowledged these bits of help he got. Leaving allot of us to assume he was Superman. Which left some of us younger techs 10 years ago feeling a mix of awe, and not a little frustration because we didn’t' have that support at hand. It's important to try and source help and I've done this my whole life. There's been times though where I've simply not had anyone about who was willing to help. I've popped in to neighbours houses with a bottle of wine and a laptop and asked them to read one screen, then left them with the bottle of wine. I've put stuff in a back pack and headed nto town to find a bar. These solutions aren't always possible given every possible scenario though. So I'd argue that time is in fact a consideration that at times may need to be given. I know I've impressed the guys here because I was waiting for an hour one day last week on the Net Admin dropping off an anti-virus disc for me to install onto a laptop I was prepping for him. Given it's week 3 and I've still to get sitting down with the guy, I wasn’t' expecting it anytime soon. He's extremely busy and rather than sit there with my arms the same length, I harnessed the puppy up and went a wondering and asked people where his office was. I wouldn't accept anyones arms because I wanted to turn up at his door on my own. When I got there, he was so nice and apologetic. I smiled, shrugged and said, no worries I know you're busy. Darragh, please, please please please I'm genuinely interested on your views towards organisations such as the UK's Access To Work. It's so difficult to express emotions or motive in email, so let me say out right I'm feeling very calm, and am honestly interested your opinion to this question. Do you not feel that organisations like Access To Work who are a government ran body that provide financial assistance should be there to help? Or is it simply the financial burden put upon the company you take exception to? Of course in the context that they are replacing a solution they've already put money and resources into implementing. If your answer is yes, then how about other forms of access? I may be straying off the path here, but at a high level I feel this example might have merit. If someone is in a wheel chair and access to the building is via steps who should have the burden to pay for the installation of a ramp and maintenance of said ramp? The company or the person in the chair? Feel free to thwack your keyboard or me if you think I'm comparing appel's and orange's here. Or point out why this example doesn't fit in with what you're saying. I feel this could be a really productive conversation and am pleased that no one has taken anything personally. There are many place's online I could see this topic exploding into flames and it's nice to see we can all talk like adults and professionals here. Opinions can be given, and certainly agreed or disagreed on, but that's life. I'm not always happy when someone disagrees with me, but there's no point throwing fits and burning bridges if it is at all avoidable In the interest of being a responsible employee I'm now going to have to stay in work an extra half hour, which is how long it took me to write this reply! Though I am really interested in hearing back on people's views of different Remote access solutions. Regards, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 06 November 2012 14:27 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers,and a hlp desk support position To all- As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone! Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources. Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful. I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products. Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware. I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader. Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM. I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice. It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works." This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Darragh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all - far from it, but as someone who will soon be looking for a sysadmin type job, I have a question: Lets say that you are successfull in getting a job in an environment that has already been setup - E.G. servers, clients, pieces of software and you are responsible for maintaining everything & setting new things up when required. Surpose that software x is inaccessible but you're required to use it. For arguments sake, lets assume that it is completely inaccessible and even after trying to hack a solution together it's just completely unusable. How would you handle this on a personal level - E.G. being able to still carry out tasks that were given to you and on a management level - E.G. bringing up the problem with management and advising them that the only solution would be to buy another piece of software? If you end up in this situation, is this a case of where you should have thought ahead and got the company to provide you with a complete list of software that they use before you accepted the job? Imo inaccessible is a bit of a vague term; I use many pieces of software that I would class as hard to use but I can get by if I have to so I'm reluctant to class them as inaccessible. Do you often encounter completely inaccessible software or is most stuff usable with a little bit of determination and creative thinking? Cheers, Ben. On 11/6/12, David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

Thanks. My response is going to be a little rambling myself, but you hit the high points of my mental processes conn for a second solution.

Believe it or not, I agree with this. I don't think it gives me a good in if I would say oh by the way you or group x has to shell out major bucks just so I can do this job. Anything but remote shadowing for me is doable, but it doesn't make me look good that their admin guy's have to drop in another software package. If I were them I wouldn't want to do it and just wouldn't hire me.

I've not used their vpn package, so I don't know how it will or won't work, since this is presumably a high end commercial vpn package I doubt there's a demo.I don't see myself going around to every workstation in the network and putting jaws on it, to me that's impractical even if I was only going to be in one building or area which I'm understanding some between location travel might be required.

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote:

...

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

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Hello,

Thanks. My response is going to be a little rambling myself, but you hit the high points of my mental processes conn for a second solution.

Believe it or not, I agree with this. I don't think it gives me a good in if I would say oh by the way you or group x has to shell out major bucks just so I can do this job. Anything but remote shadowing for me is doable, but it doesn't make me look good that their admin guy's have to drop in another software package. If I were them I wouldn't want to do it and just wouldn't hire me.

I've not used their vpn package, so I don't know how it will or won't work, since this is presumably a high end commercial vpn package I doubt there's a demo.I don't see myself going around to every workstation in the network and putting jaws on it, to me that's impractical even if I was only going to be in one building or area which I'm understanding some between location travel might be required.

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote:

...

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of

...

workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for

...

with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless

Hi Darragh, I've a longer reply in process but must say at first I thought I would disagree with you, which is OK. I'm not going to hold it against you and know you wouldn't on the flip side. Having seen your below reply to ben I can honestly say I agree with you. At least the majority of the way. I'm a huge believer in teamwork. Where I've started to work seems to be of the same ilk. I've told my manager from day one I just want to pull my own weight from within the team. His response was, that's music to my ears. He's therefore willing to massage roles to ensure that everyone, A. Gives back to the company's investment. B. Has job satisfaction themselves. If I come across aspects of my role that is just outright impossible for me to do, I will negotiate with other team members. I'll be happy to take on jobs they hate. It's taken me 3 years to get this job and you can bet your boots I'll do anything within my power to hold onto it. While holding onto my self-respect and self-worth. See my next mail for more in-depth... Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 06 November 2012 15:00 To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Ben, Very good question and I have found myself in this position a few times. I suppose the real question here is would I leave a job if I found that I couldn't do it on par with others in the company. The short answer is yes. Absolutely. I very rarely make an issue of the fact that I cant see with my employer. In fact this is the absolute last thing I would do. When I cant use an application I take on other work to compansate. I try to negociate with other people to do the tasks that I am unable to do. I agree with you about accessibility being a bad description. I have learned the hard way now to get a run down of the software that is in use by the company before taking a job. In the event that I have no way of getting out of using something then I get someone to help. That usually means logging in late at night with a friend who can read the screen. This happens at the moment. I need to produce reports using the Mcafee web reporter. This tool doesn't work for me at all so every Friday morning I get up early and I ask my girlfriend to do the clicking. I have had to bring one issue to my employers attention in the past four years and that is because I am now basically working alone so I don't have the flexability of negociating with people to reallocate work. But yes, even now, if I found that I couldn't do this job I would resign. Maybe it's a pride thing but I wouldn't ask my employer to make allowances for me. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ben Mustill-Rose <ben@benmr.com> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:50 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Darragh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all - far from it, but as someone who will soon be looking for a sysadmin type job, I have a question: Lets say that you are successfull in getting a job in an environment that has already been setup - E.G. servers, clients, pieces of software and you are responsible for maintaining everything & setting new things up when required. Surpose that software x is inaccessible but you're required to use it. For arguments sake, lets assume that it is completely inaccessible and even after trying to hack a solution together it's just completely unusable. How would you handle this on a personal level - E.G. being able to still carry out tasks that were given to you and on a management level - E.G. bringing up the problem with management and advising them that the only solution would be to buy another piece of software? If you end up in this situation, is this a case of where you should have thought ahead and got the company to provide you with a complete list of software that they use before you accepted the job? Imo inaccessible is a bit of a vague term; I use many pieces of software that I would class as hard to use but I can get by if I have to so I'm reluctant to class them as inaccessible. Do you often encounter completely inaccessible software or is most stuff usable with a little bit of determination and creative thinking? Cheers, Ben. On 11/6/12, David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com> wrote: these people pits

...

of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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Hello, If you've got documentation I'd love to see it myself. I am hoping that with downloading the trial I can use it in a well a workgroup setting as that's loosely what I have here to test, I know that the job will most likely have a domain. I have no issues with negotiating with team members to perform task x for me, my problem would be if they're doing all my job then yah I wouldn't be keeping it. Thanks. Dave. On 11/6/12, Barry Toner <Barry.Toner@clanmil.org.uk> wrote:

Hi Darragh,

I've a longer reply in process but must say at first I thought I would disagree with you, which is OK. I'm not going to hold it against you and know you wouldn't on the flip side.

Having seen your below reply to ben I can honestly say I agree with you. At least the majority of the way.

I'm a huge believer in teamwork. Where I've started to work seems to be of the same ilk. I've told my manager from day one I just want to pull my own weight from within the team. His response was, that's music to my ears. He's therefore willing to massage roles to ensure that everyone,

A. Gives back to the company's investment. B. Has job satisfaction themselves.

If I come across aspects of my role that is just outright impossible for me to do, I will negotiate with other team members. I'll be happy to take on jobs they hate. It's taken me 3 years to get this job and you can bet your boots I'll do anything within my power to hold onto it. While holding onto my self-respect and self-worth.

See my next mail for more in-depth...

Barry.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 06 November 2012 15:00 To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Ben,

Very good question and I have found myself in this position a few times.

I suppose the real question here is would I leave a job if I found that I couldn't do it on par with others in the company. The short answer is yes. Absolutely.

I very rarely make an issue of the fact that I cant see with my employer. In fact this is the absolute last thing I would do. When I cant use an application I take on other work to compansate. I try to negociate with other people to do the tasks that I am unable to do.

I agree with you about accessibility being a bad description.

I have learned the hard way now to get a run down of the software that is in use by the company before taking a job.

In the event that I have no way of getting out of using something then I get someone to help. That usually means logging in late at night with a friend who can read the screen. This happens at the moment. I need to produce reports using the Mcafee web reporter. This tool doesn't work for me at all so every Friday morning I get up early and I ask my girlfriend to do the clicking.

I have had to bring one issue to my employers attention in the past four years and that is because I am now basically working alone so I don't have the flexability of negociating with people to reallocate work.

But yes, even now, if I found that I couldn't do this job I would resign. Maybe it's a pride thing but I wouldn't ask my employer to make allowances for me.

Regards

Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: Ben Mustill-Rose <ben@benmr.com> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:50 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

Darragh,

I'm not disagreeing with you at all - far from it, but as someone who will soon be looking for a sysadmin type job, I have a question:

Lets say that you are successfull in getting a job in an environment that has already been setup - E.G. servers, clients, pieces of software and you are responsible for maintaining everything & setting new things up when required. Surpose that software x is inaccessible but you're required to use it. For arguments sake, lets assume that it is completely inaccessible and even after trying to hack a solution together it's just completely unusable. How would you handle this on a personal level - E.G. being able to still carry out tasks that were given to you and on a management level - E.G. bringing up the problem with management and advising them that the only solution would be to buy another piece of software? If you end up in this situation, is this a case of where you should have thought ahead and got the company to provide you with a complete list of software that they use before you accepted the job?

Imo inaccessible is a bit of a vague term; I use many pieces of software that I would class as hard to use but I can get by if I have to so I'm reluctant to class them as inaccessible. Do you often encounter completely inaccessible software or is most stuff usable with a little bit of determination and creative thinking?

Cheers, Ben.

...

Hello,

Thanks. My response is going to be a little rambling myself, but you hit the high points of my mental processes conn for a second solution.

Believe it or not, I agree with this. I don't think it gives me a good in if I would say oh by the way you or group x has to shell out major bucks just so I can do this job. Anything but remote shadowing for me is doable, but it doesn't make me look good that their admin guy's have to drop in another software package. If I were them I wouldn't want to do it and just wouldn't hire me.

I've not used their vpn package, so I don't know how it will or won't work, since this is presumably a high end commercial vpn package I doubt there's a demo.I don't see myself going around to every workstation in the network and putting jaws on it, to me that's impractical even if I was only going to be in one building or area which I'm understanding some between location travel might be required.

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote:

...

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of

...

...

workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for

...

...

with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless

On 11/6/12, David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com> wrote: these people pits

...

...

of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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Hello,

Thanks. My response is going to be a little rambling myself, but you hit the high points of my mental processes conn for a second solution.

Believe it or not, I agree with this. I don't think it gives me a good in if I would say oh by the way you or group x has to shell out major bucks just so I can do this job. Anything but remote shadowing for me is doable, but it doesn't make me look good that their admin guy's have to drop in another software package. If I were them I wouldn't want to do it and just wouldn't hire me.

I've not used their vpn package, so I don't know how it will or won't work, since this is presumably a high end commercial vpn package I doubt there's a demo.I don't see myself going around to every workstation in the network and putting jaws on it, to me that's impractical even if I was only going to be in one building or area which I'm understanding some between location travel might be required.

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote:

...

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of

...

workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for

...

with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless

Ben, Very good question and I have found myself in this position a few times. I suppose the real question here is would I leave a job if I found that I couldn't do it on par with others in the company. The short answer is yes. Absolutely. I very rarely make an issue of the fact that I cant see with my employer. In fact this is the absolute last thing I would do. When I cant use an application I take on other work to compansate. I try to negociate with other people to do the tasks that I am unable to do. I agree with you about accessibility being a bad description. I have learned the hard way now to get a run down of the software that is in use by the company before taking a job. In the event that I have no way of getting out of using something then I get someone to help. That usually means logging in late at night with a friend who can read the screen. This happens at the moment. I need to produce reports using the Mcafee web reporter. This tool doesn't work for me at all so every Friday morning I get up early and I ask my girlfriend to do the clicking. I have had to bring one issue to my employers attention in the past four years and that is because I am now basically working alone so I don't have the flexability of negociating with people to reallocate work. But yes, even now, if I found that I couldn't do this job I would resign. Maybe it's a pride thing but I wouldn't ask my employer to make allowances for me. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ben Mustill-Rose <ben@benmr.com> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 06/11/2012 14:50 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Darragh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all - far from it, but as someone who will soon be looking for a sysadmin type job, I have a question: Lets say that you are successfull in getting a job in an environment that has already been setup - E.G. servers, clients, pieces of software and you are responsible for maintaining everything & setting new things up when required. Surpose that software x is inaccessible but you're required to use it. For arguments sake, lets assume that it is completely inaccessible and even after trying to hack a solution together it's just completely unusable. How would you handle this on a personal level - E.G. being able to still carry out tasks that were given to you and on a management level - E.G. bringing up the problem with management and advising them that the only solution would be to buy another piece of software? If you end up in this situation, is this a case of where you should have thought ahead and got the company to provide you with a complete list of software that they use before you accepted the job? Imo inaccessible is a bit of a vague term; I use many pieces of software that I would class as hard to use but I can get by if I have to so I'm reluctant to class them as inaccessible. Do you often encounter completely inaccessible software or is most stuff usable with a little bit of determination and creative thinking? Cheers, Ben. On 11/6/12, David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com> wrote: these people pits

...

of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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...

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...

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Hello, Thanks. My response is going to be a little rambling myself, but you hit the high points of my mental processes conn for a second solution. Believe it or not, I agree with this. I don't think it gives me a good in if I would say oh by the way you or group x has to shell out major bucks just so I can do this job. Anything but remote shadowing for me is doable, but it doesn't make me look good that their admin guy's have to drop in another software package. If I were them I wouldn't want to do it and just wouldn't hire me. I've not used their vpn package, so I don't know how it will or won't work, since this is presumably a high end commercial vpn package I doubt there's a demo.I don't see myself going around to every workstation in the network and putting jaws on it, to me that's impractical even if I was only going to be in one building or area which I'm understanding some between location travel might be required. Thanks. Dave. On 11/6/12, Darragh OHeiligh <Darragh.OHeiligh@oireachtas.ie> wrote:

Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler.

The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else.

This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle.

So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you.

Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed.

For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator.

This is just my opinion of course.

I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position.

From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@independentliving.com> To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>

I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo?

Thanks. Dave.

On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra <stephen@independentliving.com> wrote:

...

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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