Hello, Can someone please tell me what is going on with Azure? Oh please tell me what is going on because I'm losing my mind. About a month ago, the interface went through a weird design change where there was a beautiful accessible combo box along with the weird expandable controls that Jaws can't get it's head around. In my head I thought "Perfect!!! They've hidden an accessible alternative control in response to the issues I encountered about 6 months ago". Today I go back with the expectation of undertaking a rather huge project for the next week or two and I find that those lovely combo boxes are gone and Jaws no longer reads 99% of the drop down list things that are used absolutely everywhere in the interface. I'm going crazy here. I know that they are making a lot of changes with this never ending development cycle thing they are doing these days but come on. Won't someone thinkof the sys admins who need to use this rubbish regularly? Why can't people just use a combobox! If it acts like a combobox, looks like a combobox, conveys all the consistency of a combobox, I fail to see why it can't just be a ......... combobox! Please tell me I'm not the only one encountering this frustration. On the topic of Jaws, If Microsoft are in bed with the HTML5 standards, is it too much of me to expect that the controls they are using in the Azure portal are in some way HTML5 based? If so, shouldn't Jaws pick them up and handle them correctly? I've spent the day in powershell now and I really dislike powershell when creating a full Azure implementation from scratch. It's great for regular administration but I hate it for this type of thing. Please help me. Tell me I'm not alone with this Azure stuff and that others out there are going through the same pain as I am. Oh then to top it all off, I had to submit a support request. The combo boxes for that are no longer accessible too but the tree view for picking the sub category is some weird custom control as well. The ramble about comboboxes remaining combobox's applies to treeviews too. I've been at this computer for 13 hours now. It's probably time I stop. Regards Darragh
I've not been at it in a while, but I know exactly what you're referring to. Totally agree. I think I even tried the JAWS cursor, and I find that nowadays, even that thing's not very helpful.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 16:38
To: Blind sysadmins list
I've not been at it in a while, but I know exactly what you're referring to. Totally agree. I think I even tried the JAWS cursor, and I find that nowadays, even that thing's not very helpful.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 16:38
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi Guys, I too am having major issues with the Office365 portal. I've made the Exchange Admin kinda work, but this is terrible. I called to open a ticket and never got anything back. VFO couldn't do anything to help either because their support folks can't access a high enough level of the admin to see the screens I am seeing. It is time for Microsoft and VFO to getheir stuff straight. I too am very frustrated and would love to find a solution. Thanks, Billy L. Irwin
Hi Guys, I too am having major issues with the Office365 portal. I've made the Exchange Admin kinda work, but this is terrible. I called to open a ticket and never got anything back. VFO couldn't do anything to help either because their support folks can't access a high enough level of the admin to see the screens I am seeing. It is time for Microsoft and VFO to getheir stuff straight. I too am very frustrated and would love to find a solution. Thanks, Billy L. Irwin
I'm glad to see that it's not just me having trouble in the exchange portal of office 365. The other day I was trying to accomplish a very simple task of forwarding one e-mail to a supervisor because a staff person resigned. Jaws was missing check boxes that needed to be checked in order to browse to the forwarding recipient. I removed jaws and turned on Window-Eyes which found the check boxes and activated them for me. I then turned off Window-Eyes and reactivate a jaws and was able to complete the task. This simple task took me almost 45 minutes to sort out what was wrong. The Microsoft disability answer desk claim they had no knowledge of the office 365 screens. So they sent me onto office 365 support who in turn tried to send me back to the disability team.
I have also had great trouble with jaws working with rules in the mail flow area as well. I hope the message is getting to Microsoft that these things have not been designed with accessability in mind.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
I'm glad to see that it's not just me having trouble in the exchange portal of office 365. The other day I was trying to accomplish a very simple task of forwarding one e-mail to a supervisor because a staff person resigned. Jaws was missing check boxes that needed to be checked in order to browse to the forwarding recipient. I removed jaws and turned on Window-Eyes which found the check boxes and activated them for me. I then turned off Window-Eyes and reactivate a jaws and was able to complete the task. This simple task took me almost 45 minutes to sort out what was wrong. The Microsoft disability answer desk claim they had no knowledge of the office 365 screens. So they sent me onto office 365 support who in turn tried to send me back to the disability team.
I have also had great trouble with jaws working with rules in the mail flow area as well. I hope the message is getting to Microsoft that these things have not been designed with accessability in mind.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:48 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
I raised the combo box thing with the TAM at work. It is _such_ a huge issue to me. At some point I need to do a couple of large GUI jobs with automation accounts and OMS and am putting it off for as long as possible.
For everything else I now use the Python Azure client exclusively because I much prefer it over the PowerShell version even though the PowerShell version is easier to integrate into scripts etc.
VSTS is also now getting these new style combo boxes as well.
One thing I find sometimes if you know what you want to select from this box you can type it into Notepad, then when going through the box you get into Forms mode and can paste the item in you want and hit enter. Not good though. I pretty much use Chrome exclusively for both VSTS and Azure.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine M. Moss
Sent: 16 January 2018 21:43
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi everyone:
I've forwarded your comments onto the Azure team as well as a few others internally to start a conversation to find out what happened and how we can fix this. Just so its on the record, would one of you mind sending me the exact steps you're taking to find one of these combo boxes just so we can all make sure we're talking about the same thing?
Thanks.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:13 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
If you go to the Azure portal and go to the Resource Group blade, add a new resource group. In the new blade that pops up, there are 2 such boxes: Resource Group subscription and location.
These boxes are the type I was discussing earlier where you can type text into the box to get the item you want quicker. I just tried this now with my method as I know the location I want to use, subscription is more tricky as I have loads of them these days and they have very long names.
I have been using Azure for around 3 months and have had this since day 1.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: 16 January 2018 22:27
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks for the duplication instructions Andrew, that does help. What screen reader/browser combo are you using? I could reproduce in both JAWS and Narrator using IE and Edge, but I did find that while using Narrator/Edge I could up and down arrow to select a subscription whereas in JAWS with either browser, the virtual PC cursor kept turning itself on. Regardless, the control is reporting to both screen readers as an edit box, when it is, in fact, a list box or combo box so this is definitely an issue regardless of screen reader/browser.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
Latest JFW 2018 build with Chrome 62.
I can also reproduce on Firefox 52 ESR and IE.
Thanks.
Andrew.
________________________________________
From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org]
Sent: 17 January 2018 00:05
To: Blind sysadmins list
Cc: Ryan Shugart
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Azure and screen readers.
Thanks for the duplication instructions Andrew, that does help. What screen reader/browser combo are you using? I could reproduce in both JAWS and Narrator using IE and Edge, but I did find that while using Narrator/Edge I could up and down arrow to select a subscription whereas in JAWS with either browser, the virtual PC cursor kept turning itself on. Regardless, the control is reporting to both screen readers as an edit box, when it is, in fact, a list box or combo box so this is definitely an issue regardless of screen reader/browser.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
Latest JFW 2018 build with Chrome 62.
I can also reproduce on Firefox 52 ESR and IE.
Thanks.
Andrew.
________________________________________
From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org]
Sent: 17 January 2018 00:05
To: Blind sysadmins list
Cc: Ryan Shugart
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Azure and screen readers.
Thanks for the duplication instructions Andrew, that does help. What screen reader/browser combo are you using? I could reproduce in both JAWS and Narrator using IE and Edge, but I did find that while using Narrator/Edge I could up and down arrow to select a subscription whereas in JAWS with either browser, the virtual PC cursor kept turning itself on. Regardless, the control is reporting to both screen readers as an edit box, when it is, in fact, a list box or combo box so this is definitely an issue regardless of screen reader/browser.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks for the duplication instructions Andrew, that does help. What screen reader/browser combo are you using? I could reproduce in both JAWS and Narrator using IE and Edge, but I did find that while using Narrator/Edge I could up and down arrow to select a subscription whereas in JAWS with either browser, the virtual PC cursor kept turning itself on. Regardless, the control is reporting to both screen readers as an edit box, when it is, in fact, a list box or combo box so this is definitely an issue regardless of screen reader/browser.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
If you go to the Azure portal and go to the Resource Group blade, add a new resource group. In the new blade that pops up, there are 2 such boxes: Resource Group subscription and location.
These boxes are the type I was discussing earlier where you can type text into the box to get the item you want quicker. I just tried this now with my method as I know the location I want to use, subscription is more tricky as I have loads of them these days and they have very long names.
I have been using Azure for around 3 months and have had this since day 1.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: 16 January 2018 22:27
To: Blind sysadmins list
1. click add resource
Hit enter on virtual machine
Hit enter on Windows
Hit enter on Windows server 2016 datacenter
You are now presented with a screen asking for the type of machine. Classic or resource manager. This is one of the combo boxes.
I also have the following browser specific feedback specifically when using Jaws.
1. Chrome. Works best.
Firefox. Stopped using it since V57. I will try it when the accessibility issues are resolved.
Internet explorer. Some of the clickable controls don't execute.
Edge. Couldn't use it at all. I couldn't execute the items on the navigation bar.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: Tuesday 16 January 2018 22:27
To: Blind sysadmins list
1. click add resource
Hit enter on virtual machine
Hit enter on Windows
Hit enter on Windows server 2016 datacenter
You are now presented with a screen asking for the type of machine. Classic or resource manager. This is one of the combo boxes.
I also have the following browser specific feedback specifically when using Jaws.
1. Chrome. Works best.
Firefox. Stopped using it since V57. I will try it when the accessibility issues are resolved.
Internet explorer. Some of the clickable controls don't execute.
Edge. Couldn't use it at all. I couldn't execute the items on the navigation bar.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: Tuesday 16 January 2018 22:27
To: Blind sysadmins list
Greetings All,
I know that in some ways this might not be related, but I want to include it because I am in process of connecting our newly created AD to Azure. I am willing to share in more details from my experience while at work. If anyone is interested to reach out while I am at work. When I login to Office365, I want to navigate through the menus such as the Admin Menu that lists Exchange Online, SharePoint and many others.
When going into the Admin panel after logging into O365, it immediately puts me in forms mode no matter which browser or screen reader. Once I am in, I cannot navigate through any of the drop down menus. Nothing is really a heading either. This is especially true when using the Exchange Admin interface. Even when you hit on check boxes, they sometimes do not activate. I've gotten another admin to click on a few of the links so I could save what I need as a favorite. I will also add if you get out of forms mode and you navigate around and land on an object, you can hit enter twice to get it to activate. Tomorrow when I am at work and time permits I will write it down by steps.
Sorry for rambling,
Billy
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:23 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hey Billy:
Thanks for the info on Office 365 and the admin console. FYI the Office 365 portal and related applications are not related to Azure and use a different UI framework. We have passed the feedback onto the appropriate team though. Just as a reminder to everyone, please feel free to pass any accessibility feedback onto the Enterprise Disability Answer Desk, edad@microsoft.com, and they can get you in touch with the appropriate team.
Thanks.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:45 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks so much Ryan! Could you share where it is that I contact them in more detail as I've searched for this before and had no luck actually finding it. When I called the standard Disability Answer Desk, they didn't even know where to send me.
Thanks kindly,
Billy L. Irwin - K9OH
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:28 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks so much Ryan! Could you share where it is that I contact them in more detail as I've searched for this before and had no luck actually finding it. When I called the standard Disability Answer Desk, they didn't even know where to send me.
Thanks kindly,
Billy L. Irwin - K9OH
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:28 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Billy:
Not quite sure what you're looking for, as I said the best contact for them is the edad@microsoft.com email address. I don't think there is a phone number that you can call, EDAD support is all email. I'm surprised the regular disability answer desk isn't forwarding queries onto the EDAD, this should probably get looked into by someone. The standard disability answer desk is consumer support only, but I'd think they'd at least know to forward nonconsumer issues onto the EDAD.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 4:20 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi Ryan,
It didn't initially read the email address in a way I was expecting, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. It sure would be nice if I could sit down with someone and show them where the issues are. Again, thanks so much for the clarification and I certainly will reach out.
Kind Regards,
Billy
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:11 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi Ryan,
It didn't initially read the email address in a way I was expecting, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. It sure would be nice if I could sit down with someone and show them where the issues are. Again, thanks so much for the clarification and I certainly will reach out.
Kind Regards,
Billy
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:11 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Billy:
Not quite sure what you're looking for, as I said the best contact for them is the edad@microsoft.com email address. I don't think there is a phone number that you can call, EDAD support is all email. I'm surprised the regular disability answer desk isn't forwarding queries onto the EDAD, this should probably get looked into by someone. The standard disability answer desk is consumer support only, but I'd think they'd at least know to forward nonconsumer issues onto the EDAD.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 4:20 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hey Billy:
Thanks for the info on Office 365 and the admin console. FYI the Office 365 portal and related applications are not related to Azure and use a different UI framework. We have passed the feedback onto the appropriate team though. Just as a reminder to everyone, please feel free to pass any accessibility feedback onto the Enterprise Disability Answer Desk, edad@microsoft.com, and they can get you in touch with the appropriate team.
Thanks.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:45 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Greetings All,
I know that in some ways this might not be related, but I want to include it because I am in process of connecting our newly created AD to Azure. I am willing to share in more details from my experience while at work. If anyone is interested to reach out while I am at work. When I login to Office365, I want to navigate through the menus such as the Admin Menu that lists Exchange Online, SharePoint and many others.
When going into the Admin panel after logging into O365, it immediately puts me in forms mode no matter which browser or screen reader. Once I am in, I cannot navigate through any of the drop down menus. Nothing is really a heading either. This is especially true when using the Exchange Admin interface. Even when you hit on check boxes, they sometimes do not activate. I've gotten another admin to click on a few of the links so I could save what I need as a favorite. I will also add if you get out of forms mode and you navigate around and land on an object, you can hit enter twice to get it to activate. Tomorrow when I am at work and time permits I will write it down by steps.
Sorry for rambling,
Billy
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:23 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi everyone:
I've forwarded your comments onto the Azure team as well as a few others internally to start a conversation to find out what happened and how we can fix this. Just so its on the record, would one of you mind sending me the exact steps you're taking to find one of these combo boxes just so we can all make sure we're talking about the same thing?
Thanks.
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:13 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
I raised the combo box thing with the TAM at work. It is _such_ a huge issue to me. At some point I need to do a couple of large GUI jobs with automation accounts and OMS and am putting it off for as long as possible.
For everything else I now use the Python Azure client exclusively because I much prefer it over the PowerShell version even though the PowerShell version is easier to integrate into scripts etc.
VSTS is also now getting these new style combo boxes as well.
One thing I find sometimes if you know what you want to select from this box you can type it into Notepad, then when going through the box you get into Forms mode and can paste the item in you want and hit enter. Not good though. I pretty much use Chrome exclusively for both VSTS and Azure.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine M. Moss
Sent: 16 January 2018 21:43
To: Blind sysadmins list
participants (6)
-
Andrew Hodgson -
Billy Irwin -
Darragh Ó Héiligh -
Katherine M. Moss -
Ryan Shugart -
Troy Hergert