I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ... -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space. Good luck

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it. There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ... -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space. Good luck

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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Thank you for your co-operation.

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Perhaps we should talk sometime... I am only putting out a fraction of what I have gone through, but I just wanted to give some context to where I was at in my reasoning. If you want, I will give you my number or I can skype/voip etc. I am not sure a hardware device is the way to go, or at least not for me... OCR takes to long and you do not get feedback when you type etc. Anyway, I am doing this to pave the way for a totally inclusive solution in all products, not a bolt-on hardware solution. Now, there are times I think that would be useful, and I might support such a project, but I just take a picture of the screen with knfbreader and it usually gives me enough to go on to get booted. Remember, this is just my $0.02. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 9:20 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) This situation sounds so similar to mine. The thing with me is I wasn't finding anyone willing to give a visually impaired person a chance. The ones that did give me a fair shake didn't pay well. To the contribution part, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to develop a hardware device or something through a secondary computer to take the output from one PC and OCR the screen and at least give you the layout for starters. Thanks, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:26 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it. There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ... -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space. Good luck

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

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That is kinda what I am thinking. With things operating faster now, it might be a catalyst to something bigger. What would help me a lot is if this device could change contrast of the screen. For example on the VMWare server it is a white background with black text. Can't see it at all. So reversing it would be very helpful not to mention speech. I like the idea of eventually being able to walk up to any device and being able to use it with accessibility. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 9:27 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) I used to program my VCR by feeding the video to a video capture board in a PC. I'd capture a frame, run an OCR program on it, and listen to the results. It was extraordinarily tedious, of course. I wrote a script to make it a little bit easier. The script periodically took a screen shot, did the OCR, and then displayed just the differences from the last screen cap. These days you can get a video to USB video capture cable fairly cheap. That and a more sophisticated difference algorythm and you might have something. On 11/26/2016 09:31 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Perhaps we should talk sometime... I am only putting out a fraction of what I have gone through, but I just wanted to give some context to where I was at in my reasoning. If you want, I will give you my number or I can skype/voip etc.

I am not sure a hardware device is the way to go, or at least not for me... OCR takes to long and you do not get feedback when you type etc. Anyway, I am doing this to pave the way for a totally inclusive solution in all products, not a bolt-on hardware solution. Now, there are times I think that would be useful, and I might support such a project, but I just take a picture of the screen with knfbreader and it usually gives me enough to go on to get booted. Remember, this is just my $0.02.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 9:20 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

This situation sounds so similar to mine. The thing with me is I wasn't finding anyone willing to give a visually impaired person a chance. The ones that did give me a fair shake didn't pay well. To the contribution part, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to develop a hardware device or something through a secondary computer to take the output from one PC and OCR the screen and at least give you the layout for starters.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:26 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

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To answer the question about MSDN ... any Windows version of piece or software, I can get just by downloading it. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 12:01 PM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) That is kinda what I am thinking. With things operating faster now, it might be a catalyst to something bigger. What would help me a lot is if this device could change contrast of the screen. For example on the VMWare server it is a white background with black text. Can't see it at all. So reversing it would be very helpful not to mention speech. I like the idea of eventually being able to walk up to any device and being able to use it with accessibility. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 9:27 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) I used to program my VCR by feeding the video to a video capture board in a PC. I'd capture a frame, run an OCR program on it, and listen to the results. It was extraordinarily tedious, of course. I wrote a script to make it a little bit easier. The script periodically took a screen shot, did the OCR, and then displayed just the differences from the last screen cap. These days you can get a video to USB video capture cable fairly cheap. That and a more sophisticated difference algorythm and you might have something. On 11/26/2016 09:31 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Perhaps we should talk sometime... I am only putting out a fraction of what I have gone through, but I just wanted to give some context to where I was at in my reasoning. If you want, I will give you my number or I can skype/voip etc.

I am not sure a hardware device is the way to go, or at least not for me... OCR takes to long and you do not get feedback when you type etc. Anyway, I am doing this to pave the way for a totally inclusive solution in all products, not a bolt-on hardware solution. Now, there are times I think that would be useful, and I might support such a project, but I just take a picture of the screen with knfbreader and it usually gives me enough to go on to get booted. Remember, this is just my $0.02.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Billy Irwin Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 9:20 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

This situation sounds so similar to mine. The thing with me is I wasn't finding anyone willing to give a visually impaired person a chance. The ones that did give me a fair shake didn't pay well. To the contribution part, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to develop a hardware device or something through a secondary computer to take the output from one PC and OCR the screen and at least give you the layout for starters.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:26 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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I think the discrimination thing is worse in some geographic areas. Out West I’ve found things to be very good. I’ve only run in to real problems a few times, once very recently but at least now I have the money to create real legal problems for the companies involved. I think other parts of the country may not be as good or maybe I’m just lucky I’m not sure.

On Nov 26, 2016, at 10:20 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

This situation sounds so similar to mine. The thing with me is I wasn't finding anyone willing to give a visually impaired person a chance. The ones that did give me a fair shake didn't pay well. To the contribution part, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to develop a hardware device or something through a secondary computer to take the output from one PC and OCR the screen and at least give you the layout for starters.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:26 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

This e-mail expresses the opinion of the author and is not necessarily the view of the Council. Please be aware that anything included in an e-mail may have to be disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act and cannot be regarded as confidential. This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. Please notify the sender if received in error. All Email is monitored and recorded. Please think before you print- North Lincolnshire Council greening the workplace.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient please inform the sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it. Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents: to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all NHS staff in England and Scotland NHSmail is approved for exchanging patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and GSi recipients NHSmail provides an email address for your career in the NHS and can be accessed anywhere For more information and to find out how you can switch, visit www.nhsdigital.nhs.uk/nhsmail

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Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Mika, I attended Wright Sate University in Ohio where I earned a Master of Cyber Security. Wright State is rated very highly as an accessible school. The problem I ran into was the lack of knowledge regarding accessible software. I was the first person to go through the school of Computer Science/Engineering in 22 years with no vision at all but I did have an advantage that I have been in information technology longer than most of the other students have been alive. I worked harder than the other students in my classes but 99.99% of the faculty was more than willing to work with me but there was always the one that could care less and it wasn't his problem. WSU was just beginning to go virtual for labs but I also volunteered to work with the administrators so that the one undergrad student just beginning his worked would have fewer problems while working on his degree. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:28 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Unfortunately, I am not surprised that a university would not have accessible software. I mean, maybe they have a machine that can run Jaws with Word and IE, but I could certainly see them being clueless about how to interface Jaws with VmWare or labs, etc. Having the Trace Center on site really puts you on a league outside of the norm. I went to Boston College, and for many of the computer science classes, they really had no idea how we might adapt it. Also this was when they heavily used the Mac, and it was before VoiceOver came in to being. I had to fight with them to get my Ethernet connection hooked up in my dorm room because the provisioning tool was somehow inaccdessible. I think I had to tell there IT department that I was going to be waiting outside the presidents office on Monday morning if they did not try to fix it, and then I remember an IT director came to my dorm which was kind of neat because I don't think he had ever been in this type of residence hall. Also I had worked in the IT department, but that still didn't make them more accommodating. So we really still have a very long way to go in many of what you would consider the premium academic institutions in America. If a school really "gets it," my sense is that is still the exception and not the rule. Tell me if I'm right or wrong though Best, Mika @pyyhkala -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

This e-mail expresses the opinion of the author and is not necessarily the view of the Council. Please be aware that anything included in an e-mail may have to be disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act and cannot be regarded as confidential. This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. Please notify the sender if received in error. All Email is monitored and recorded. Please think before you print- North Lincolnshire Council greening the workplace.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

---

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins ________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

One of the things that I do is if the environment doesn't provide accessibility itself, I can sort of bring my own accessibility, though for me, that's a little easier since I have a valid mSDN license. Not everyone can brag about that. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Greg B. Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:44 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Mika, I attended Wright Sate University in Ohio where I earned a Master of Cyber Security. Wright State is rated very highly as an accessible school. The problem I ran into was the lack of knowledge regarding accessible software. I was the first person to go through the school of Computer Science/Engineering in 22 years with no vision at all but I did have an advantage that I have been in information technology longer than most of the other students have been alive. I worked harder than the other students in my classes but 99.99% of the faculty was more than willing to work with me but there was always the one that could care less and it wasn't his problem. WSU was just beginning to go virtual for labs but I also volunteered to work with the administrators so that the one undergrad student just beginning his worked would have fewer problems while working on his degree. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:28 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Unfortunately, I am not surprised that a university would not have accessible software. I mean, maybe they have a machine that can run Jaws with Word and IE, but I could certainly see them being clueless about how to interface Jaws with VmWare or labs, etc. Having the Trace Center on site really puts you on a league outside of the norm. I went to Boston College, and for many of the computer science classes, they really had no idea how we might adapt it. Also this was when they heavily used the Mac, and it was before VoiceOver came in to being. I had to fight with them to get my Ethernet connection hooked up in my dorm room because the provisioning tool was somehow inaccdessible. I think I had to tell there IT department that I was going to be waiting outside the presidents office on Monday morning if they did not try to fix it, and then I remember an IT director came to my dorm which was kind of neat because I don't think he had ever been in this type of residence hall. Also I had worked in the IT department, but that still didn't make them more accommodating. So we really still have a very long way to go in many of what you would consider the premium academic institutions in America. If a school really "gets it," my sense is that is still the exception and not the rule. Tell me if I'm right or wrong though Best, Mika @pyyhkala -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins ________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi Katherine,I was unclear on your post. I, too, have an MSDN license but am still learning the development road. Clarifying what you mean by bringing your own access would surely help others like me.Rajiv ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Moss To: Blind sysadmins list Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:32:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) One of the things that I do is if the environment doesn't provide accessibility itself, I can sort of bring my own accessibility, though for me, that's a little easier since I have a valid mSDN license. Not everyone can brag about that. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Greg B. Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:44 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Mika, I attended Wright Sate University in Ohio where I earned a Master of Cyber Security. Wright State is rated very highly as an accessible school. The problem I ran into was the lack of knowledge regarding accessible software. I was the first person to go through the school of Computer Science/Engineering in 22 years with no vision at all but I did have an advantage that I have been in information technology longer than most of the other students have been alive. I worked harder than the other students in my classes but 99.99% of the faculty was more than willing to work with me but there was always the one that could care less and it wasn't his problem. WSU was just beginning to go virtual for labs but I also volunteered to work with the administrators so that the one undergrad student just beginning his worked would have fewer problems while working on his degree. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:28 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Unfortunately, I am not surprised that a university would not have accessible software. I mean, maybe they have a machine that can run Jaws with Word and IE, but I could certainly see them being clueless about how to interface Jaws with VmWare or labs, etc. Having the Trace Center on site really puts you on a league outside of the norm. I went to Boston College, and for many of the computer science classes, they really had no idea how we might adapt it. Also this was when they heavily used the Mac, and it was before VoiceOver came in to being. I had to fight with them to get my Ethernet connection hooked up in my dorm room because the provisioning tool was somehow inaccdessible. I think I had to tell there IT department that I was going to be waiting outside the presidents office on Monday morning if they did not try to fix it, and then I remember an IT director came to my dorm which was kind of neat because I don't think he had ever been in this type of residence hall. Also I had worked in the IT department, but that still didn't make them more accommodating. So we really still have a very long way to go in many of what you would consider the premium academic institutions in America. If a school really "gets it," my sense is that is still the exception and not the rule. Tell me if I'm right or wrong though Best, Mika @pyyhkala -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins ________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

That's normal MSDN ... I set up lab environments with BizSpark MSDN. There's a difference between the two programs. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:46 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Catherine, Your bragging aside, Having an MSDN license doesn't give you any ability to "Bring accessibility with you". It allows you to pre-test operating systems and applications. So, again, I'd ask that you clarify this. If you know something that I don't, I'm all ears. I have an MSDN license as well. I think it's an invaluable tool that allows testing of Microsoft applications before they get adopted by my infrastructure. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Rajiv Shah Sent: Tuesday 29 November 2016 02:19 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Hi Katherine,I was unclear on your post. I, too, have an MSDN license but am still learning the development road. Clarifying what you mean by bringing your own access would surely help others like me.Rajiv ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Moss To: Blind sysadmins list Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:32:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) One of the things that I do is if the environment doesn't provide accessibility itself, I can sort of bring my own accessibility, though for me, that's a little easier since I have a valid mSDN license. Not everyone can brag about that. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Greg B. Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:44 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Mika, I attended Wright Sate University in Ohio where I earned a Master of Cyber Security. Wright State is rated very highly as an accessible school. The problem I ran into was the lack of knowledge regarding accessible software. I was the first person to go through the school of Computer Science/Engineering in 22 years with no vision at all but I did have an advantage that I have been in information technology longer than most of the other students have been alive. I worked harder than the other students in my classes but 99.99% of the faculty was more than willing to work with me but there was always the one that could care less and it wasn't his problem. WSU was just beginning to go virtual for labs but I also volunteered to work with the administrators so that the one undergrad student just beginning his worked would have fewer problems while working on his degree. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:28 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Unfortunately, I am not surprised that a university would not have accessible software. I mean, maybe they have a machine that can run Jaws with Word and IE, but I could certainly see them being clueless about how to interface Jaws with VmWare or labs, etc. Having the Trace Center on site really puts you on a league outside of the norm. I went to Boston College, and for many of the computer science classes, they really had no idea how we might adapt it. Also this was when they heavily used the Mac, and it was before VoiceOver came in to being. I had to fight with them to get my Ethernet connection hooked up in my dorm room because the provisioning tool was somehow inaccdessible. I think I had to tell there IT department that I was going to be waiting outside the presidents office on Monday morning if they did not try to fix it, and then I remember an IT director came to my dorm which was kind of neat because I don't think he had ever been in this type of residence hall. Also I had worked in the IT department, but that still didn't make them more accommodating. So we really still have a very long way to go in many of what you would consider the premium academic institutions in America. If a school really "gets it," my sense is that is still the exception and not the rule. Tell me if I'm right or wrong though Best, Mika @pyyhkala -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins ________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi, Bizspark MSSDN is available to start up companies for 3 years at no cost. Microsoft gives startup companies essentially a free start on building their software. Infrastructure with the hope that they will become Microsoft customers when the time comes. I don't know of anything special about the software. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:46 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Catherine, Your bragging aside, Having an MSDN license doesn't give you any ability to "Bring accessibility with you". It allows you to pre-test operating systems and applications. So, again, I'd ask that you clarify this. If you know something that I don't, I'm all ears. I have an MSDN license as well. I think it's an invaluable tool that allows testing of Microsoft applications before they get adopted by my infrastructure. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Rajiv Shah Sent: Tuesday 29 November 2016 02:19 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Hi Katherine,I was unclear on your post. I, too, have an MSDN license but am still learning the development road. Clarifying what you mean by bringing your own access would surely help others like me.Rajiv ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Moss To: Blind sysadmins list Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:32:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) One of the things that I do is if the environment doesn't provide accessibility itself, I can sort of bring my own accessibility, though for me, that's a little easier since I have a valid mSDN license. Not everyone can brag about that. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Greg B. Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:44 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Mika, I attended Wright Sate University in Ohio where I earned a Master of Cyber Security. Wright State is rated very highly as an accessible school. The problem I ran into was the lack of knowledge regarding accessible software. I was the first person to go through the school of Computer Science/Engineering in 22 years with no vision at all but I did have an advantage that I have been in information technology longer than most of the other students have been alive. I worked harder than the other students in my classes but 99.99% of the faculty was more than willing to work with me but there was always the one that could care less and it wasn't his problem. WSU was just beginning to go virtual for labs but I also volunteered to work with the administrators so that the one undergrad student just beginning his worked would have fewer problems while working on his degree. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:28 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Unfortunately, I am not surprised that a university would not have accessible software. I mean, maybe they have a machine that can run Jaws with Word and IE, but I could certainly see them being clueless about how to interface Jaws with VmWare or labs, etc. Having the Trace Center on site really puts you on a league outside of the norm. I went to Boston College, and for many of the computer science classes, they really had no idea how we might adapt it. Also this was when they heavily used the Mac, and it was before VoiceOver came in to being. I had to fight with them to get my Ethernet connection hooked up in my dorm room because the provisioning tool was somehow inaccdessible. I think I had to tell there IT department that I was going to be waiting outside the presidents office on Monday morning if they did not try to fix it, and then I remember an IT director came to my dorm which was kind of neat because I don't think he had ever been in this type of residence hall. Also I had worked in the IT department, but that still didn't make them more accommodating. So we really still have a very long way to go in many of what you would consider the premium academic institutions in America. If a school really "gets it," my sense is that is still the exception and not the rule. Tell me if I'm right or wrong though Best, Mika @pyyhkala -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins ________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

I'm not saying that there is anything special about it ... just that it makes it easier for me to create short-term lab environments. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Greg B. Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 8:59 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Hi, Bizspark MSSDN is available to start up companies for 3 years at no cost. Microsoft gives startup companies essentially a free start on building their software. Infrastructure with the hope that they will become Microsoft customers when the time comes. I don't know of anything special about the software. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 7:46 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Catherine, Your bragging aside, Having an MSDN license doesn't give you any ability to "Bring accessibility with you". It allows you to pre-test operating systems and applications. So, again, I'd ask that you clarify this. If you know something that I don't, I'm all ears. I have an MSDN license as well. I think it's an invaluable tool that allows testing of Microsoft applications before they get adopted by my infrastructure. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Rajiv Shah Sent: Tuesday 29 November 2016 02:19 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Hi Katherine,I was unclear on your post. I, too, have an MSDN license but am still learning the development road. Clarifying what you mean by bringing your own access would surely help others like me.Rajiv ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Moss To: Blind sysadmins list Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:32:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) One of the things that I do is if the environment doesn't provide accessibility itself, I can sort of bring my own accessibility, though for me, that's a little easier since I have a valid mSDN license. Not everyone can brag about that. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Greg B. Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:44 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Mika, I attended Wright Sate University in Ohio where I earned a Master of Cyber Security. Wright State is rated very highly as an accessible school. The problem I ran into was the lack of knowledge regarding accessible software. I was the first person to go through the school of Computer Science/Engineering in 22 years with no vision at all but I did have an advantage that I have been in information technology longer than most of the other students have been alive. I worked harder than the other students in my classes but 99.99% of the faculty was more than willing to work with me but there was always the one that could care less and it wasn't his problem. WSU was just beginning to go virtual for labs but I also volunteered to work with the administrators so that the one undergrad student just beginning his worked would have fewer problems while working on his degree. Greg B. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:28 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Unfortunately, I am not surprised that a university would not have accessible software. I mean, maybe they have a machine that can run Jaws with Word and IE, but I could certainly see them being clueless about how to interface Jaws with VmWare or labs, etc. Having the Trace Center on site really puts you on a league outside of the norm. I went to Boston College, and for many of the computer science classes, they really had no idea how we might adapt it. Also this was when they heavily used the Mac, and it was before VoiceOver came in to being. I had to fight with them to get my Ethernet connection hooked up in my dorm room because the provisioning tool was somehow inaccdessible. I think I had to tell there IT department that I was going to be waiting outside the presidents office on Monday morning if they did not try to fix it, and then I remember an IT director came to my dorm which was kind of neat because I don't think he had ever been in this type of residence hall. Also I had worked in the IT department, but that still didn't make them more accommodating. So we really still have a very long way to go in many of what you would consider the premium academic institutions in America. If a school really "gets it," my sense is that is still the exception and not the rule. Tell me if I'm right or wrong though Best, Mika @pyyhkala -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 10:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption) Geez, which university are you attending that doesn't have accessible machines? I find that rather shocking in the 21st century. I work for the University of Wisconsin but maybe we are different. We do have the Trace Center, which is one of the leading centers for accessibility research so maybe the mere presence of that group effects the attitude of the entire University. When I talk to blind undergrads here, their main complaint is getting text books. No one has ever complained to me about the accessibility of the labs. On 11/26/2016 07:25 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

Here is the problem as I see it. I just am finishing my associates degree from a small community college. I did have some access issues, but with 2 laptops, and lots of extra time I was able to get around the systems and stuff I couldn't access. They rely heavily on vmware to build stuff, and while I can use a vmware machine if proper software is installed, the interface is almost useless for me. I do think, however, that vmware now has powershell and I will explore this, but It is just another thing I will have to take time and learn that they are not using. I say that to get here. I wanted to finish my final 2 years at a 4-year university here in IL. They use exclusively a virtual machine environment. They have no accessible software installed, and so there is no way for me to interact with it. They do have some equipment that has jaws etc, but it is not part of the learning environment that generates the labs and such. When I initially started discussing ideas for making it accessible, they were all excited about working with me. After they talked to the vendors and other people in charge, they came back with "it cannot be done" "It would be a burden." We can provide you with some readers to help, but that is about it.

There are 2 approaches I could take at this point... I could fight with them and have a long drawn out fight, or I can do something real about it. I don't particularly need the degree. I have been in this field for years and actually started with Linux in 0.99pl2 I have Unix experience from before then. I started with apple machines, learned 6802 assembler, then graduated through DOS and windows. I have been toying with this for a bit, and I am going to start with the boot loader. It has to be UEFI, because that is where the capabilities lie, but that will hit most newer systems. I am going to write a talking boot loader and go from there. Hopefully when I get this off the ground, people will be interested enough to support me in what ever way. There are several good ones to start with. After the boot loader, xen is open and that should make a good virtualization platform to tweek the ui for. This is my plan to start after Christmas. I will make a road map, put up a site for information, and If anyone wants to contribute ideas etc, I will listen. I was going to do some work with Speakup, but there is another gentleman working on that, so I will concentrate for now on the boot loader. Once we have a talking boot loader, we can go from there.kp

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 5:29 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

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If you want to make a contribution, there are always plenty of ways. Most projects need people to write and update documentation. Or you could write a blog or help maintain a wiki. I used to maintain a wiki entry for doing eyes-free Windows installs. But I don't use Windows any more. If you want to do that kind of thing, I can give you access to the blog and the wiki at www.iavit.org. On 11/26/2016 05:29 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:

I see the point of paying work forward ... but the difficulty with these big companies is actually getting people to listen when the source code is not available to us as in the case with closed source. So how are we expected to contribute when the code is not available? Just saying ...

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryption)

Billy, some of the network devices you mention may be even more accessible to you than your operating systems choices. For example, Cisco and Juniper equipment on the network side is very much CLI based and can be accessed with the most basic of terminal programs. Just like you’ll log in to your remote linux devices with SSH you would various routers and switches. Even today with the GUI options most network engineers use the CLI option exclusively. Same with telephone equipment. Lots of phone switches are CLI based as are the soft switches like Freeswitch and Asterisk. Devices like SIP to TDM gateways and session border controllers are also CLI based. I’m actually thinking of working on an E911 project which is why I mention this to you. I find it interesting you were working in that space.

Good luck

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:16 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

Hi John,

In my case, I've had to work on many different systems that run Windows and Linux. I've also recently been dealing with the Mac. When I started in I.T. straight out of high school in 2002 as the county's I.T. Director, I got my feet wet quickly. At that time I had better vision. One of the most critical systems I was responsible for was the E911 system. I managed everything network wise to telephone Centrex and PBX. I would love to continue in that line of things but sadly the limitations scare the crap out of me. After not having a degree, I've recently went back to school and will graduate in the spring with an Associate's degree in Network Systems Management. Like you, I would prefer to just do Linux. I am well versed with it. What is more frustrating is something like VMWare vSphere. The list could go on. I've worked with Citrix Server and I found it fairly useful. I could still see to use it. I have to use high contrast. As stated though, my condition is progressive and it just bothers me that more isn't being done. Just as I love working with Linux, I wan't to continue with Windows since Active Directory in the enterprise is still very much common place.

Kind Regards,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 8:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I don't think that I have ever had to install Windows for my job. I am a linux systems admin. I just think those of us who have made it owe it to the people coming up to do the best we can for them. After all, most of us have benefitted from the work done by those who came before. Anyone on this list contributed a line of code to a screen reader? Anyone on this list responsible for getting those 508 regulations pushed through? The reason Mac OS comes with a screen reader is because of those regulations. We have all benefitted from the hard work of the people who came before us. Pay it forward.

On 11/25/2016 05:47 PM, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

I am very much affected by this.When asking several years ago, I got the same answers. So many of the vendors should be making their systems backend accessible to I.T. professionals that are blind/visually impaired. As I get older, my vision is decreasing to the point that TTS is becoming more useful but less available. This even leads me to wonder what my future in I.T. is going to be. I am more than interested in helping the cause.

Thanks,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 4:47 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

I think there is probably something to this... I once asked how come the NFB wasn't more aggressive in trying to get some accessibility stuff done for some Microsoft server related things, and the response I got was is that it did not get enough media attention and therefore things that were more publicity oriented would be done. When I delved into this, I was also handed the line that it was only relavent to a small amount of people... So I guess it has to be "big" and a lot of people must be effected for the blindness organizations to even attempt it. These were not by any means all the people in the organization, but it is a fact that the membership tends to "blindly" follow the leadership... ;)

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, November 25, 2016 10:35 AM To: jheim@math.wisc.edu; Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] talking installs (was encryyption)

Remember though, his point of view was paid for and I do dispute his point of view. Lack of talking installs is a barrier to employment. I know many discouraged from entering the computer sciences and technical space for this reason as I’m sure do you. I firmly believe that Freedom Scientific paid for that point of view creating a dependency on JFW where Microsoft could have built better and more integrated accessibility options much like Apple has and you see in the Linux distributions. We know that Ted Center gave the NFB a 7 figure check on more than one occasion to preserve the NFB’s position that the only solution was ones provided by FS and in fact stimulated protests in Redmond against Microsoft’s internal accessibility efforts.

...

On Nov 25, 2016, at 9:36 AM, John G. Heim wrote:

Most linux distros also have talking installs. But part of the reason it continues to be an issue with Windows is that it has not been a high priority for the people who work with Microsoft on accessibility issues. In fact, that was one of the triggers for us to start the International Association Of Visually Impaired Technologists. I was talking via email with Curtis Chong of the NFB about accessibility issues. He had been scheduled to meet with Microsoft in a couple of days. I brought up the problem of doing Windows installs. He didn't see it as a high priority because it effects so few people. A small bug in Microsoft Excel, for example, might effect thousands of blind people but the inaccessible install effected only a few hundred. I am not disputing his point of view, it is just that I have a different one. I don't think there is anybody out there looking out for the interests of blind IT professionals.

Of course, IAVIT never took off. Only 2 or 3 of us ever got involved. It still technically exists though. Every once in a while I think maybe I'll try to re-energize our core.

On 11/25/2016 02:50 AM, HICKS, Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) wrote:

...

Yes, and you can install your os from scratch with voice feedback as far as I am aware and have been told with no extra scripts and things.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: 24 November 2016 13:56 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

That’s one of the nice things about the Mac, you get spoken feedback for the entire authentication process. You’d think they could do something similar on the windows side.

...

On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Caroline Ford wrote:

We use Becrypt Disk Protect to encrypt our Windows 7 laptops at work. I have to enter my username and password as soon as I switch on the laptop and there is no audible feedback. Under Windows 10 there is supposed to be an audio option which produces a number of beeps to let the user know which information is required (one beep for username, two for password I think), and another number of beeps if the login has been successful or not. When we move to Windows 10 I will be able to test whether this actually works.

Caroline.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mailing Lists Sent: 23 November 2016 17:38 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Possible encription methods for using on a PC/Laptop!

Hi All,

Just wondered if there are any possible methods of encrypting a computer which could then be accessed by a blind person. This need arises for someone who is working in a law firm where computers are encrypted. Either pre or post boot stages. Any information on how this might work would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.

***

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

This e-mail expresses the opinion of the author and is not necessarily the view of the Council. Please be aware that anything included in an e-mail may have to be disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act and cannot be regarded as confidential. This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. Please notify the sender if received in error. All Email is monitored and recorded. Please think before you print- North Lincolnshire Council greening the workplace.

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This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient please inform the sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it. Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents: to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

Thank you for your co-operation.

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