NVDA and no. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 25 May 2016 12:53 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important. Jaws - yes. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: 25 May 2016 12:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important. Hello, I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes. To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed. If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Orca, and yes. On 05/25/2016 07:07 AM, Matthew White wrote:

Window-Eyes. Yes

Sent from my iPhone

...

On May 25, 2016, at 07:11, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Jaws, Yes -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Randall Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 10:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important. Jaws. Yes Thanks Sean

On 25 May 2016, at 12:11, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins ________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments.

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback. Here are the results: Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed Window Eyes . 4 employed Orca . 2 employed Overall, I think this is really encouraging. It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment. It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment. Thanks again Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important. JAWS No On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

It's hard to say if this list is representative of the blind sys admin community as a whole. My impression is that linux users are under represented. It could be that the list attracts Windows users because there are a lot of Windows questions asked and answered on this list. Or it could be that I think linux users are under represented because I am on so many linux user lists. Also, this list almost certainly attractspeople who are already employed. On 05/25/2016 12:58 PM, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback.

Here are the results:

Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed

NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed

Window Eyes . 4 employed

Orca . 2 employed

Overall, I think this is really encouraging.

It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment.

It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment.

Thanks again

Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

JAWS No

On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

...

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- Todd

The survey provided the informationI needed as although the Linux users were interesting, theprimary focus was Windows. Thanks for your input. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 21:29 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important. It's hard to say if this list is representative of the blind sys admin community as a whole. My impression is that linux users are under represented. It could be that the list attracts Windows users because there are a lot of Windows questions asked and answered on this list. Or it could be that I think linux users are under represented because I am on so many linux user lists. Also, this list almost certainly attractspeople who are already employed. On 05/25/2016 12:58 PM, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback.

Here are the results:

Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed

NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed

Window Eyes . 4 employed

Orca . 2 employed

Overall, I think this is really encouraging.

It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment.

It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment.

Thanks again

Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

JAWS No

On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

...

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- Todd _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi, It's interesting, I would say in the main the topics on the list aren't really sysadmin stuff at all, but mainly more complex desktop issues. The main topics over the years have been surrounding WinPE and recovery tools. I would love to see more sysadmin problem solving type questions go up here if we can do that. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl Sent: 25 May 2016 21:29 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important. It's hard to say if this list is representative of the blind sys admin community as a whole. My impression is that linux users are under represented. It could be that the list attracts Windows users because there are a lot of Windows questions asked and answered on this list. Or it could be that I think linux users are under represented because I am on so many linux user lists. Also, this list almost certainly attractspeople who are already employed. On 05/25/2016 12:58 PM, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback.

Here are the results:

Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed

NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed

Window Eyes . 4 employed

Orca . 2 employed

Overall, I think this is really encouraging.

It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment.

It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment.

Thanks again

Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

JAWS No

On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

...

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- Todd _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Well, there is the talk list of the International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. It hav very low volume though. Quite a disappointment to me. I wish people would use it more. talk-subscribe@iavit.org Another low-volume list but one with a lot of expertise in linux for pros is the blinux list: blinux-list-subscribe@redhat.com There are also lists for the character screen reader, speakup, the GUI screen reader orca, and for the blind-friendly distros vinux and sonar. The orca list has very high volume. orca-list-subscribe@gnome.org On 05/26/2016 01:03 PM, Phil Rigby wrote:

Yes, I wish there was more on Linux on here. Have you any recommendations for good lists to follow concerning Linux and VI's, particularly covering working in the corporate/business world?

Phil.

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Todor Fassl Sent: 25 May 2016 21:29 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

It's hard to say if this list is representative of the blind sys admin community as a whole. My impression is that linux users are under represented. It could be that the list attracts Windows users because there are a lot of Windows questions asked and answered on this list. Or it could be that I think linux users are under represented because I am on so many linux user lists.

Also, this list almost certainly attractspeople who are already employed.

...

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback.

Here are the results:

Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed

NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed

Window Eyes . 4 employed

Orca . 2 employed

Overall, I think this is really encouraging.

It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment.

It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment. Thanks again

Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

JAWS No

On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

...

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you

On 05/25/2016 12:58 PM, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote: primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not.

...

...

For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed. If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users. Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- Todd

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- -- John G. Heim; jheim@math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org

Darragh: Sorry I wasn’t able to chime in earlier, I’m just now reading this thread. Window-Eyes and yes I’m employed. I do also use NVDA, its not my primary screen reader but it is installed on my machine. I’m surprised the NVDA numbers aren’t higher since its free and a no risk install, at least as a secondary screen reader. It sounds like you’re using this as an argument for making sure an application is tested with a particular application is tested and which screen reader it should be tested with? If this is simple testing to see does the application work with a screen reader, I would not recommend JAWS or Window-Eyes. NVDA and even Windows Narrator will give you a good easy feel of was the application designed with accessibility in mind and is it working as they are a lot more raw in how they handle the various accessibility APIs. Both JAWS and Window-Eyes have hacks and work arounds, so sometimes even if something is not implemented to the raw spec it will still read in one or the other, but if you go with Narrator or NVDA and it reads, it will read in Window-Eyes or JAWS. More complex testing such as user base testing, absolutely go with JAWS or Window-Eyes, but NVDA and Narrator are good at getting a good feel for will this work in its raw form as implemented. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh Reply-To: Blind sysadmins list Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 11:58 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback.

Here are the results:

Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed

NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed

Window Eyes . 4 employed

Orca . 2 employed

Overall, I think this is really encouraging.

It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment.

It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment.

Thanks again

Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

JAWS No

On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

...

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi, Jaws and yes but with the caveats that a: the sysadmin part of my role is mainly Linux and b: I unofficially use NVDA quite a bit as well. Cheers, Ben. On 5/26/16, Ryan Shugart wrote:

Darragh: Sorry I wasn’t able to chime in earlier, I’m just now reading this thread. Window-Eyes and yes I’m employed. I do also use NVDA, its not my primary screen reader but it is installed on my machine. I’m surprised the NVDA numbers aren’t higher since its free and a no risk install, at least as a secondary screen reader. It sounds like you’re using this as an argument for making sure an application is tested with a particular application is tested and which screen reader it should be tested with? If this is simple testing to see does the application work with a screen reader, I would not recommend JAWS or Window-Eyes. NVDA and even Windows Narrator will give you a good easy feel of was the application designed with accessibility in mind and is it working as they are a lot more raw in how they handle the various accessibility APIs. Both JAWS and Window-Eyes have hacks and work arounds, so sometimes even if something is not implemented to the raw spec it will still read in one or the other, but if you go with Narrator or NVDA and it reads, it will read in Window-Eyes or JAWS. More complex testing such as user base testing, absolutely go with JAWS or Window-Eyes, but NVDA and Narrator are good at getting a good feel for will this work in its raw form as implemented. Ryan

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh Reply-To: Blind sysadmins list Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 11:58 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

...

Thanks everyone for the really useful feedback.

Here are the results:

Jaws 3 unemployed . 9 employed

NVDA . 1 Unemployed . 2 employed

Window Eyes . 4 employed

Orca . 2 employed

Overall, I think this is really encouraging.

It will assist me in a discussion I'm having at the moment.

It will also help everyone here when you are asking a developer to use a certain application for testing the accessibility of any particular system administration tool. You have an idea of the most popular at the moment.

Thanks again

Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Prescott Sent: Wednesday 25 May 2016 18:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Quick survey. Results are important.

JAWS No

On Wed, 25 May 2016, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

...

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

NVDA, voiceover, orca, and no Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Bill Dengler wrote:

NVDA (Windows)/VOiceOver(OS X), no.

Bill

...

On May 25, 2016, at 7:11 AM, Darragh Ó Héiligh wrote:

Hello,

I would appreciate it if you would reply with the screen reader you primarily use and yes or no depending on if you are currently employed or not. For example: Jaws, Yes.

To indicate that Jaws is your primary screen reader and you are currently employed.

If you'd prefer to send this to me off list please Email d@digitaldarragh.commailto:d@digitaldarragh.com

Your name and answer will not be shared. I simply want to get a picture of the top screen readers actively used in system administration by blind users.

Thanks

Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins