Accessibility of Azure web UI
This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I agree with every word previously stated here ... from the little experience I had (There is only so much I can set up in Azure at the moment without going broke), I liked the CLI output, but as stated, sometimes nothing beats a nice table. And yes, is PowerShell going to lead us towards .NET conventions or Unix CLI? I'd love an answer to that question myself ... that way my friend and I can stop fighting over scripting conventions in our own personal networks. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Katherine: Thanks for the comments these are all good. As I said we're working closely with the Azure Portal team, and I also will pass this feedback onto the people who make the Azure Commandline tools. Are there any other people on this list or that anyone knows of trying to use the Azure web portal with a screen reader? As I said making it work has been a priority of mine for some time now, I had started a dialog with Azure even before I came to Microsoft, but I'd really like to find some more blind people using Azure to get some feed back and learn more about their specific paine points. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:24 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I agree with every word previously stated here ... from the little experience I had (There is only so much I can set up in Azure at the moment without going broke), I liked the CLI output, but as stated, sometimes nothing beats a nice table. And yes, is PowerShell going to lead us towards .NET conventions or Unix CLI? I'd love an answer to that question myself ... that way my friend and I can stop fighting over scripting conventions in our own personal networks. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Katherine: Thanks for the comments these are all good. As I said we're working closely with the Azure Portal team, and I also will pass this feedback onto the people who make the Azure Commandline tools. Are there any other people on this list or that anyone knows of trying to use the Azure web portal with a screen reader? As I said making it work has been a priority of mine for some time now, I had started a dialog with Azure even before I came to Microsoft, but I'd really like to find some more blind people using Azure to get some feed back and learn more about their specific paine points. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:24 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I agree with every word previously stated here ... from the little experience I had (There is only so much I can set up in Azure at the moment without going broke), I liked the CLI output, but as stated, sometimes nothing beats a nice table. And yes, is PowerShell going to lead us towards .NET conventions or Unix CLI? I'd love an answer to that question myself ... that way my friend and I can stop fighting over scripting conventions in our own personal networks. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
But install plugins in powershell are a nightmare (spelling) -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] För Katherine Moss Skickat: den 6 december 2016 17:24 Till: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Ämne: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I agree with every word previously stated here ... from the little experience I had (There is only so much I can set up in Azure at the moment without going broke), I liked the CLI output, but as stated, sometimes nothing beats a nice table. And yes, is PowerShell going to lead us towards .NET conventions or Unix CLI? I'd love an answer to that question myself ... that way my friend and I can stop fighting over scripting conventions in our own personal networks. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
But install plugins in powershell are a nightmare (spelling) -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] För Katherine Moss Skickat: den 6 december 2016 17:24 Till: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Ämne: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I agree with every word previously stated here ... from the little experience I had (There is only so much I can set up in Azure at the moment without going broke), I liked the CLI output, but as stated, sometimes nothing beats a nice table. And yes, is PowerShell going to lead us towards .NET conventions or Unix CLI? I'd love an answer to that question myself ... that way my friend and I can stop fighting over scripting conventions in our own personal networks. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I agree with every word previously stated here ... from the little experience I had (There is only so much I can set up in Azure at the moment without going broke), I liked the CLI output, but as stated, sometimes nothing beats a nice table. And yes, is PowerShell going to lead us towards .NET conventions or Unix CLI? I'd love an answer to that question myself ... that way my friend and I can stop fighting over scripting conventions in our own personal networks. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Thanks for your response Ryan. PowerShell is certainly a reasonably good tool however, sometimes for contextual details or reading information that is best provided in tables, nothing beats the Web UI. Also, it is often not possible to use PowerShell to set up a service that you have never used before. For example, I have set up Azure VPN's in the past but with the new portal, the VPN structure has changed. I would had to read a lot more and would have spent a lot more time creating a scripted solution to do what I needed compared to using the web UI. It is sometimes also much more efficient to use the web UI compared to using PowerShell for once-off tasks. Therefore, I do not consider PowerShell to be a viable replacement for a good UI. I know this wasn't the point you were making but I still think it's very important to explain that although PowerShell is great, it's not a replacement for an accessible GUI. Also, in relation to PowerShell, it drives me nuts sometimes. Take get-ADUser. Pass in the value of get-ADGroupMembership and it doesn't need a filter or identity column. But if I want to search all users that have a specific property, I need to jump through hoops of piping output to other commands and using compounded where clauses. It's so messy. It's kind of like an object orientated language crossed with Unix pipes! That's my next issue actually. I like that there's tab autocompletion but sometimes you want the tab autocompletion from Linux to show you all the potential commands or switches. Or sometimes, you want the proper dropdown box that you have in visual studio when you want to see the methods available. Again, I like PowerShell. It's a great tool but I find that I want it to pick a convention and stick with it! Is it going to go more toward .net conventions or is it going to use more Unix CLI conventions. Am I alone in this thinking? I'm interested in your thought's. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday 5 December 2016 20:58 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Katherine, out of curiosity do you use the Azure Portal much at all or do you do all of your Azure work using Powershell? Have you found the documentation for Powershell serves your needs? Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 9:37 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI I personally love the Cmdlets ... though one thing I noticed with them is when I originally used the portal to create a test affinity group (before I learned about the newer model), while the portal showed the group as existing, PowerShell didn't. My contact at the time who uses it all of the time said he had never seen that before. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 12:12 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi Darragh: I've been on vacation, so I'm just now catching up on email. I wanted to comment a little on Azure, Gianugo and I are both working very closely with the Azure portal team and all offiliated teams. It is one of our high priorities. I'd like to hear more feedback from you and any other blind people using the Azure portal so we can try and prioritize the issues most important and causing the most headaches for everyone. Feel free to reach out to my MS email if you want to take this offline, ryshugar@microsoft.com. As an alternative Darragh, have you worked with any of the Powershell CMDlets for Azure or the Azure Commandline Tools? I'd be interested in feedback on those as well, but there are even a lot of sighted people who use the commandline tools over the portal for day to day administration. Thanks. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Darragh Ó Héiligh [d@digitaldarragh.com] Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Another problem to add to the list. This time replicated using Chrome. Adding a site to site connection on the virtual network gateway. Unable to select a local network gateway. The blade appears blank. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday 1 December 2016 15:56 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI Hi, Have you tried using Chrome or Firefox? I find for the AWS console (and I don't use Azure at the moment), that it works a lot better when using Chrome. That said, they have changed it this week and there are some issues. Is there a Cloudformation alternative in Azure? Terraform does support Azure, though not sure to what degree. That will give you infrastructure as code. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Katherine Moss [Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu] Sent: 01 December 2016 15:51 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
From the little experience I've had with Azure, I can say that mine was similar. Some of the stuff is improved with NVDA; it doesn't stutter, for instance.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility of Azure web UI This Azure interface drives me crazy. It seems to randomly change. I certainly didn't have these problems about six weeks ago because I successfully created a test VPN without any problems. Today, I had to do it again but what should have been a 5 minute job took 40 minutes because both the Azure web UI and Jaws 18 were fighting with each other. When there's a new notification, Jaws starts to stutter.nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononontifications is frequently spoken. This is the start of what is less than an acceptable situation. A few of the problems I found today are: 1. the link to add subnets and add Subnet gateway is not properly labelled. 2. It is no longer possible to select the location for your Azure resource. a grid might or might not appear but pressing space doesn't add the contents to the edit box. 3. Sometimes Jaws gets stuck. During this time when pressing shift and E, instead of looking for the last edit field it's telling me I'm not in a table. 4. The filter drop downs are no longer bringing out the next blade to the right of the screen. There used to be a select or filter button but I don't know where this has gone. Sometimes pressing down and space will bring up the filter blade but not all the time. I'm using IE11 on windows 10 X64 with Jaws18. All Jaws updates and Windows updates are applied. Can someone make my experience known to the Azure UI developers please? This needs to be fixed. Thanks Darragh _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
participants (5)
-
Andrew Hodgson -
Darragh Ó Héiligh -
Katherine Moss -
mattias jonsson -
Ryan Shugart