I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, Darragh, but just to be clear, in the United States, accessibility is considered a right. I'm not necessarily saying this is the correct way to look at it but one could argue that a blind person has the right to access the systems like any other worker. You wouldn't make a sighted employee buy his own computer monitor so why should a blind employee have to buy his own braille display? The blind person simply has a different way of doing things. He is "differently abled" as they say. Imagine a sighted person starting out a job and they sit him down at a desk with a PC, a keyboard, and a set of speakers. He says, "Hey, where's the monitor?" They say, "We don't usually supply our employees with monitors. A screen reader and a set of speakers is a lot cheaper. If you're going to insist on using your sight, you'll have to buy your own monitor." Likewise, if sighted people needed some extra piece of software to use a remote access tool, like a video driveror, the company would just buy it. It would be absurd to tell all the sighted employees that they had to buy their own video drivers to do their job. So why should a blind employee have to buy the extra software he needs to do his job? Now, I'll admit that on a practical basis, demanding that an employer purchase accessibility tools can be a deterrent to hiring the disabled. The employer is going to ask himself how much extra is it going to cost me if I hire this guy. But I don't think a blind employee has an ethical obligation to buy his own accessibility tools. In high-paying jobs like programming and systems administration, investing in your own accessibility tools is easy. But for lower paying jobs, it’s a lot harder. So saying blind people have an obligation to buy their own accessibility tools can be a big problem. Furthermore, putting the responsibility for access on the disabled is a step backward culturally. We are never going to fix problems with access for the disabled in general if we continue to think of it as every man for himself. Of course, we can get into a philosophical discussion as to whether a society has an obligation to address the needs of the disabled. Ayn Rand would say the only fair system is one where it is every man for himself. I don't happen to agree with that. But that philosophical question should probably be discussed on another list. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 8:46 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Stephen, I think you need to read over my mail again. I did not take exception to Seroteks products. What I said was that it is irrisponsible to ask a company to purchase these products in addition to a remote access solution that they already have in place that has it's own licensing costs. This is in the context of applying for the job on equal merits compared to sighted applicants. I would argue that if RIM or any other package is required to enable a blind person to do their job efficiently then that person should take the responsibility of paying for this application. The responsibility should not be taken by the employer. Again, in case there is any confusion, I am not discrediting any product here. If RIM or any other application suits the employer and no alternative product is already installed then brilliant! Start from the ground up with accessible solutions. I know of one person on this list doing that very thing and I think his company are just fantastic! However, if you take a job and you find that their environment isn't completely accessible then in my opinion it is your responsibility to find and implement solutions that do not place a burden on your employer. I laughed at your suggestion that i write a guide to using Dameware. I have recorded tutorials for SCCM with Jaws, configuring administrative environments to be more accessible and general tips for administration with a screen reader. I have asked for contributions from other people both on this list, on twitter, facebook and my own websites. Not once has someone from here actually submitted anything. That's fine of course. I know that everyone is busy and document writing isn't exactly the most fun thing in the world to do. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Stephen Guerra" To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" , Date: 06/11/2012 14:27 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" To all- As previously stated, this is not specific to anyone! Serotek's RAM and Rim are a suitable and very usable alternative to Daimeware, where most companies do not have Daimeware automatically as part of its system/network resources. Taking acception to and calling out Serotek's products and lumping it in with other AT vendors who's products do not even remotely come close to the productivity that RAM and RIM offer and provide is 100% silly and sinful. I agree as an advocate for equal consideration and access, that we should utilize what is in place. But where the situation exists, where no remote software is present or that has been considered, RAM and RIM should be considered. If Daimeware is such a rebust and wonderful product, and if it works for you, why not provide a detailed instruction file on how to use it with all AT products. Who is to say that, (though not eing specific)"that your not on the compensation list for Daimaeware. I use LogMeIn but its not really accessible? I have contacted the manufacturer of LogMeIn and have not reached a complete understanding with the developers as to how to make it usable with a screen reader. Also, with Widnow Eyes or Jaws, if you have more then three machines, the network Licenses for each product to be installed on each machine certainly is more spendy then RAM or RIM. I am a System/Network admin for a network of 50 users and 5 servers, and RAM is my product of choice. It may not work for others, but in terms of an out-of-the-box solution, "it just works." This is my 2 cents, but would agree, if your going to rant, bring all the facts whether economic, effective and/or beneificial for the group. Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 6:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sorry, I'm going to rant for a minute but it's not specifically as a result of this question or indeed David Mehler. The problem I have with this is if a company is licenced for Dameware in their organization then because we rely on an assistive remote access solution we are requiring the company to purchase more costly software just so as we can do the same job. This is not acceptable in my opinion. Companies cannot be expected to shell out for RAM or RIM or any varient of these solutions when they already have something like Dameware and it is suiting the majoritie of their employees. This isn't a complaint against Serotek or any other assistive technology company. It's a complaint against blind computer users who just expect that companies can simply add more software onto their infrastructure. To install Jaws on all of these workstations and servers I had to jump through hoops for the first year. This company employed me because of my skillset and experience. They share my opinion that they should not have to adapt their software environment to facilitate me. I applied for, and achieved this role because I am good at what I do. I told my employer that they should not see my visual impairment as a barier as I would do the job just as well if not better than any other applicant. It is therefore my responsibility to ensure that my employer does not need to spend any money or spend any time on adaptations that they wouldn't have to spend for another employee. in my opinion this is what I think equality and equal oppertunities for people with disabilities is meant to be. Not a bat that companies are bet over the head with to get them or agencies to pay for assistive solutions, but a kick in the ass for people with disabilities to make them strive to play on the same level as everyone else. This places a huge burden on me but it's one that I know I have to take because if I was to submit to the norm out there and expect the company and agencies to pay for my assistive technology then I would not deserve this job. Someone sighted would be able to do it just as well without causing the company as much hastle. So to conclude, I would suggest to both David and Stephen that instead of looking at an assistive application such as those made by serotek that you investigate dameware yourself and see what it can do for you. Dameware isn't the worst application out there. I used it to provide remote support for about two years. The only part that isn't really accessible is the remote desktop. Use the remote assistance in window eyes or Jaws Tandem if you need to shaddow someones session or if you just need to connect in to install software use remote desktop. yes, Tandem needs a screen reader on the other computer but most users are able tos tart it and launch a tandem session when needed. For most troubleshooting, printer changes, service administration and evenbiewer analysis the MMC is absolutely great. The less you need to shaddow someones session the better and ultimately it will make you a better system administrator. This is just my opinion of course. I just want people to remember that companies don't have bottomless pits of money. As a person with a visual impairment you have to sholder the responsibility of ensuring that you can play on a level field. This responsibility shouldn't be placed on the company your working for. At the end of the day, if you place that responsibility on someone elses shoulders then you cant seriously expect to be employed on equal merrits compared to sighted people who may be applying for the same position. From: "Stephen Guerra" To: "'Blind sysadmins list'" , Date: 05/11/2012 15:15 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" I believe there is a demo but call 866-202-0520 and it is just the matter of installing the client on your machine and the host on all the other machines you need to connect too Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:13 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position Hello, Much thanks for that quick reply. Alright, here's a question on remote access manager, how hard is it to integrate in to an existing infrastructure? And is there a demo? Thanks. Dave. On 11/5/12, Stephen Guerra wrote:

Daimeware is not accessible but you should look into Remote AccessManager by Serotek http://ram.serotek.com

/This is screen reader friendly

Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 9:06 AM To: blind-sysadmins Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] remote vpn software, screen readers, and a hlp desk support position

Hello,

I've got the possibility of getting a Help Desk support position. They use a vpn software package called I think daymeware I doubt that's spelled right, and apparently the machines are tagged so all a tech has to do is enter that tag and get on to the box. This is for any call that requires remote work, simple stuff I can troubleshoot or use group policy or active directory if enabled. I was wondering if this vpn package was known and how well I could do the remote job with a screen reader?

Thanks. Dave.

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