Active Directory management tools on Windows 7
Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above.
Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Good to know its not just me. My personal fix is to use the speak summary command, so press down arrow, then immediately press speak summary, and I'll get the right information. Annoying, but hey. I would actually really not mind a Window-Eyes script that virtualized a tree view, AKA showed the treeview as a list, let you pick the item you wanted, do the refresh and then show you the new tree. When a sighted person is moving through one of these trees, they only bring focus to the options they're clicking on. Whereas, with a screen reader, we bring focus to every option in the tree we arrow passed, causing the MMC to reload, which is very annoying. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:20 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Good to know its not just me. My personal fix is to use the speak summary command, so press down arrow, then immediately press speak summary, and I'll get the right information. Annoying, but hey. I would actually really not mind a Window-Eyes script that virtualized a tree view, AKA showed the treeview as a list, let you pick the item you wanted, do the refresh and then show you the new tree. When a sighted person is moving through one of these trees, they only bring focus to the options they're clicking on. Whereas, with a screen reader, we bring focus to every option in the tree we arrow passed, causing the MMC to reload, which is very annoying. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:20 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, Yes I have this - especially with the WSUS console. I have found that in some of these consoles, if you are viewing information from the top level, and the contents of the right hand pane just contains a summary of the tree view, you can arrow through this and use the back and forward commands to jump around. This certainly works in all the AD snapins, not the WSUS console though as that has various other panes on the right. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 01 December 2009 06:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Good to know its not just me. My personal fix is to use the speak summary command, so press down arrow, then immediately press speak summary, and I'll get the right information. Annoying, but hey. I would actually really not mind a Window-Eyes script that virtualized a tree view, AKA showed the treeview as a list, let you pick the item you wanted, do the refresh and then show you the new tree. When a sighted person is moving through one of these trees, they only bring focus to the options they're clicking on. Whereas, with a screen reader, we bring focus to every option in the tree we arrow passed, causing the MMC to reload, which is very annoying. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:20 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Andrew: Out of curiosity, what commands are you using to move back and forward when using the list view to navigate? In some consoles backspace will take me back to the previous level, in others it won't. If you think WSUS is bad, try SCCM. The habbit I'm getting into is press down arrow once to navigate to the next branch in the tree, wait up to five seconds for the refresh, down arrow again, wait another five seconds, etc. Expanding branches is even worse, as many times a branch that you can expand won't expand until its done with its refresh, and while Window-Eyes reports the branch is expanded, its not. I don't know how Window-Eyes determines that a treeview branch is expanded, hopefully it's a little more complex than just assuming if you hit right arrow on a branch that's closed the branch is now open, but hey. The Exchange 2007 console can show some of these behaviors too, but no where near what you see with SCCM. I'd imagine you've played with that console. I've actually thought about getting someone to write a treeview virtualization script like I described, that would I think solve 9 out of 10 problems with these consoles, but I don't know how difficult that'd be, and it sounds like the SCCM MMCs are the only ones that really push this into the super annoying relm. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes I have this - especially with the WSUS console. I have found that in some of these consoles, if you are viewing information from the top level, and the contents of the right hand pane just contains a summary of the tree view, you can arrow through this and use the back and forward commands to jump around. This certainly works in all the AD snapins, not the WSUS console though as that has various other panes on the right. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 01 December 2009 06:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Good to know its not just me. My personal fix is to use the speak summary command, so press down arrow, then immediately press speak summary, and I'll get the right information. Annoying, but hey. I would actually really not mind a Window-Eyes script that virtualized a tree view, AKA showed the treeview as a list, let you pick the item you wanted, do the refresh and then show you the new tree. When a sighted person is moving through one of these trees, they only bring focus to the options they're clicking on. Whereas, with a screen reader, we bring focus to every option in the tree we arrow passed, causing the MMC to reload, which is very annoying. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:20 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, I use alt+left arrow to move back in the list view. This works mainly in the AD consoles. We don't have SCCM here (its something I thought about looking into, but probably is an extra license which won't be signed off). The next one I will probably look at is SQL Server 2008. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 01 December 2009 14:55 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: Out of curiosity, what commands are you using to move back and forward when using the list view to navigate? In some consoles backspace will take me back to the previous level, in others it won't. If you think WSUS is bad, try SCCM. The habbit I'm getting into is press down arrow once to navigate to the next branch in the tree, wait up to five seconds for the refresh, down arrow again, wait another five seconds, etc. Expanding branches is even worse, as many times a branch that you can expand won't expand until its done with its refresh, and while Window-Eyes reports the branch is expanded, its not. I don't know how Window-Eyes determines that a treeview branch is expanded, hopefully it's a little more complex than just assuming if you hit right arrow on a branch that's closed the branch is now open, but hey. The Exchange 2007 console can show some of these behaviors too, but no where near what you see with SCCM. I'd imagine you've played with that console. I've actually thought about getting someone to write a treeview virtualization script like I described, that would I think solve 9 out of 10 problems with these consoles, but I don't know how difficult that'd be, and it sounds like the SCCM MMCs are the only ones that really push this into the super annoying relm. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes I have this - especially with the WSUS console. I have found that in some of these consoles, if you are viewing information from the top level, and the contents of the right hand pane just contains a summary of the tree view, you can arrow through this and use the back and forward commands to jump around. This certainly works in all the AD snapins, not the WSUS console though as that has various other panes on the right. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 01 December 2009 06:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Good to know its not just me. My personal fix is to use the speak summary command, so press down arrow, then immediately press speak summary, and I'll get the right information. Annoying, but hey. I would actually really not mind a Window-Eyes script that virtualized a tree view, AKA showed the treeview as a list, let you pick the item you wanted, do the refresh and then show you the new tree. When a sighted person is moving through one of these trees, they only bring focus to the options they're clicking on. Whereas, with a screen reader, we bring focus to every option in the tree we arrow passed, causing the MMC to reload, which is very annoying. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:20 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Andrew: Out of curiosity, what commands are you using to move back and forward when using the list view to navigate? In some consoles backspace will take me back to the previous level, in others it won't. If you think WSUS is bad, try SCCM. The habbit I'm getting into is press down arrow once to navigate to the next branch in the tree, wait up to five seconds for the refresh, down arrow again, wait another five seconds, etc. Expanding branches is even worse, as many times a branch that you can expand won't expand until its done with its refresh, and while Window-Eyes reports the branch is expanded, its not. I don't know how Window-Eyes determines that a treeview branch is expanded, hopefully it's a little more complex than just assuming if you hit right arrow on a branch that's closed the branch is now open, but hey. The Exchange 2007 console can show some of these behaviors too, but no where near what you see with SCCM. I'd imagine you've played with that console. I've actually thought about getting someone to write a treeview virtualization script like I described, that would I think solve 9 out of 10 problems with these consoles, but I don't know how difficult that'd be, and it sounds like the SCCM MMCs are the only ones that really push this into the super annoying relm. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes I have this - especially with the WSUS console. I have found that in some of these consoles, if you are viewing information from the top level, and the contents of the right hand pane just contains a summary of the tree view, you can arrow through this and use the back and forward commands to jump around. This certainly works in all the AD snapins, not the WSUS console though as that has various other panes on the right. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: 01 December 2009 06:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Good to know its not just me. My personal fix is to use the speak summary command, so press down arrow, then immediately press speak summary, and I'll get the right information. Annoying, but hey. I would actually really not mind a Window-Eyes script that virtualized a tree view, AKA showed the treeview as a list, let you pick the item you wanted, do the refresh and then show you the new tree. When a sighted person is moving through one of these trees, they only bring focus to the options they're clicking on. Whereas, with a screen reader, we bring focus to every option in the tree we arrow passed, causing the MMC to reload, which is very annoying. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:20 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi, Yes this is it, what happens is if you arrow through the list, you hear the old entry read out in its full form (i.e, the whole window title), followed by the new entry. If you down and up arrow quickly, it will fix this. I used this before on Windows XP using the old Windows Server 2003 remote admin tools, so this is a bit of a step up for me. Thanks. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart [rshugart@pcisys.net] Sent: 30 November 2009 14:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Andrew: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by items not updating. When you are in the tree view and hit down arrow, do you hear the old item instead of the item you moved to? I see that all the time in Window-Eyes, but I've seen this since Vista. Its a timing issue, the screen reader somehow thinks you've moved down when you haven't yet. I'm not sure why it wouldn't know that focus hasn't actually changed, but it doesn't. Its bad in MMC3 based apps. although I'm finding the SCCM MMC is even worse because it takes so long to refresh anything in that tree view, remote or otherwise. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 3:16 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Active Directory management tools on Windows 7 Hi all, Not sure whether this is an MMC thing, but a lot of the new admin tools on Windows 7 are having a small issue in the tree view, whereby when you arrow through it, the information that Jaws speaks is not updated. I am going to try WindowEyes with this at some point when I get home, I am doing the bulk of the upgrades here at work at the moment as I have just upgraded the AD environment to Windows Server 2008 R2, and am using the remote administration tool pack to do the bulk of the upgrade work. Thanks. Andrew. -- allpay achieved PCI DSS and ISO 27001 certification in 2008 Registered in England No. 02933191. UK VAT Reg. No. 666 9148 88. Telephone: 0844 225 5729, Fax: 0844 557 8350. Website: www.allpay.net Email: enquiries@allpay.net This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the allpay Information Security Manager at the number above. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
participants (3)
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Andrew Hodgson -
Andrew Hodgson -
Ryan Shugart