Hi Stephen, I'd never heard of it. I've just asked Mr Google and found there's a number of products. The one that I'd be looking for I'm guessing is HP Service Desk, http://www.tech.proact.co.uk/hp/hp_openview_service_desk.htm Are you using this yourself? Can you comment on its accessibility? Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 01 February 2013 13:17 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Have you looked in to hp openview? Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 2:56 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi folks, We've been looking at various Helpdesk solutions , with varying degrees of accessibility. Up until (if I'm honest), yesterday we've not had any even rough requirements. I was wondering what you are currently using in your work places to log Helpdesk and Service requests? I've looked at Zendesk, (very flash orientated), Sysaid (flash), Freshdesk (HTML but limited functionality, not so much an IT helpdesk as a Servicedesk), Oxygen, and a few others. Things we'd like the Help/Service Deskt o have are as follows, 1. Integration with Active Directory. If it links directly without having to import/export this would be brilliant. 2. Users can change their Active Directory passwords. 3. Various reporting functions for Managers. 4. SLA integration 5. Dispatcher rules, (though this isnt' critical) 6. Knowledge base both for users and technicians. 7. Canned responses 8. Ability to enforce users submit tickets via the web portal, instead of email 9. Customisable categories of requests, that can expand into sub-categories. EG. Software links to Microsoft, links to Office, links to outlook. 10. Re-branding to fit with company design. 11. Ideally can be tested in the cloud but hosted in-house. If not ideally UK based data centres. We're really up against time and I'll owe you all a pint if you can give me some pointers of what you're using and if it meets any or all of the above requirements. Thanks, Barry. Barry Toner ICT Assistant ICT Department Clanmil Housing Northern Whig House 3 Waring Street Belfast BT1 2DX Tel: 02890 876000 Fax: 02890 876001 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

That is why I suggested openview Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:05 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi, It appears this isn't a Helpdesk solution in the sense we are looking for. This is more for back-end stuff. Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Barry Toner Sent: 01 February 2013 13:55 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: RE: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi Stephen, I'd never heard of it. I've just asked Mr Google and found there's a number of products. The one that I'd be looking for I'm guessing is HP Service Desk, http://www.tech.proact.co.uk/hp/hp_openview_service_desk.htm Are you using this yourself? Can you comment on its accessibility? Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 01 February 2013 13:17 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Have you looked in to hp openview? Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 2:56 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi folks, We've been looking at various Helpdesk solutions , with varying degrees of accessibility. Up until (if I'm honest), yesterday we've not had any even rough requirements. I was wondering what you are currently using in your work places to log Helpdesk and Service requests? I've looked at Zendesk, (very flash orientated), Sysaid (flash), Freshdesk (HTML but limited functionality, not so much an IT helpdesk as a Servicedesk), Oxygen, and a few others. Things we'd like the Help/Service Deskt o have are as follows, 1. Integration with Active Directory. If it links directly without having to import/export this would be brilliant. 2. Users can change their Active Directory passwords. 3. Various reporting functions for Managers. 4. SLA integration 5. Dispatcher rules, (though this isnt' critical) 6. Knowledge base both for users and technicians. 7. Canned responses 8. Ability to enforce users submit tickets via the web portal, instead of email 9. Customisable categories of requests, that can expand into sub-categories. EG. Software links to Microsoft, links to Office, links to outlook. 10. Re-branding to fit with company design. 11. Ideally can be tested in the cloud but hosted in-house. If not ideally UK based data centres. We're really up against time and I'll owe you all a pint if you can give me some pointers of what you're using and if it meets any or all of the above requirements. Thanks, Barry. Barry Toner ICT Assistant ICT Department Clanmil Housing Northern Whig House 3 Waring Street Belfast BT1 2DX Tel: 02890 876000 Fax: 02890 876001 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Stephen, I've looked at it, but admittedly because we don't' have a Helpdesk I'm plate spinning in here. I would really appreciate you giving me a URL to the exact product you mean. From what I could see Openview is a umbrella system that has eh Service Desk branching off from it. If you are saying Openview is a single Help/Servicedesk solution then please provide me with the link to read more about it. Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 01 February 2013 15:12 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work That is why I suggested openview Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:05 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi, It appears this isn't a Helpdesk solution in the sense we are looking for. This is more for back-end stuff. Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Barry Toner Sent: 01 February 2013 13:55 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: RE: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi Stephen, I'd never heard of it. I've just asked Mr Google and found there's a number of products. The one that I'd be looking for I'm guessing is HP Service Desk, http://www.tech.proact.co.uk/hp/hp_openview_service_desk.htm Are you using this yourself? Can you comment on its accessibility? Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 01 February 2013 13:17 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Have you looked in to hp openview? Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 2:56 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi folks, We've been looking at various Helpdesk solutions , with varying degrees of accessibility. Up until (if I'm honest), yesterday we've not had any even rough requirements. I was wondering what you are currently using in your work places to log Helpdesk and Service requests? I've looked at Zendesk, (very flash orientated), Sysaid (flash), Freshdesk (HTML but limited functionality, not so much an IT helpdesk as a Servicedesk), Oxygen, and a few others. Things we'd like the Help/Service Deskt o have are as follows, 1. Integration with Active Directory. If it links directly without having to import/export this would be brilliant. 2. Users can change their Active Directory passwords. 3. Various reporting functions for Managers. 4. SLA integration 5. Dispatcher rules, (though this isnt' critical) 6. Knowledge base both for users and technicians. 7. Canned responses 8. Ability to enforce users submit tickets via the web portal, instead of email 9. Customisable categories of requests, that can expand into sub-categories. EG. Software links to Microsoft, links to Office, links to outlook. 10. Re-branding to fit with company design. 11. Ideally can be tested in the cloud but hosted in-house. If not ideally UK based data centres. We're really up against time and I'll owe you all a pint if you can give me some pointers of what you're using and if it meets any or all of the above requirements. Thanks, Barry. Barry Toner ICT Assistant ICT Department Clanmil Housing Northern Whig House 3 Waring Street Belfast BT1 2DX Tel: 02890 876000 Fax: 02890 876001 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi, We had but now we've got a team and sat down to think about it's design my Manager has changed his mind. Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 01 February 2013 18:01 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi, I thought you had already chosen a cloud-based system? Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 01 February 2013 15:05 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi, It appears this isn't a Helpdesk solution in the sense we are looking for. This is more for back-end stuff. Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Barry Toner Sent: 01 February 2013 13:55 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: RE: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi Stephen, I'd never heard of it. I've just asked Mr Google and found there's a number of products. The one that I'd be looking for I'm guessing is HP Service Desk, http://www.tech.proact.co.uk/hp/hp_openview_service_desk.htm Are you using this yourself? Can you comment on its accessibility? Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 01 February 2013 13:17 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Have you looked in to hp openview? Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 2:56 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi folks, We've been looking at various Helpdesk solutions , with varying degrees of accessibility. Up until (if I'm honest), yesterday we've not had any even rough requirements. I was wondering what you are currently using in your work places to log Helpdesk and Service requests? I've looked at Zendesk, (very flash orientated), Sysaid (flash), Freshdesk (HTML but limited functionality, not so much an IT helpdesk as a Servicedesk), Oxygen, and a few others. Things we'd like the Help/Service Deskt o have are as follows, 1. Integration with Active Directory. If it links directly without having to import/export this would be brilliant. 2. Users can change their Active Directory passwords. 3. Various reporting functions for Managers. 4. SLA integration 5. Dispatcher rules, (though this isnt' critical) 6. Knowledge base both for users and technicians. 7. Canned responses 8. Ability to enforce users submit tickets via the web portal, instead of email 9. Customisable categories of requests, that can expand into sub-categories. EG. Software links to Microsoft, links to Office, links to outlook. 10. Re-branding to fit with company design. 11. Ideally can be tested in the cloud but hosted in-house. If not ideally UK based data centres. We're really up against time and I'll owe you all a pint if you can give me some pointers of what you're using and if it meets any or all of the above requirements. Thanks, Barry. Barry Toner ICT Assistant ICT Department Clanmil Housing Northern Whig House 3 Waring Street Belfast BT1 2DX Tel: 02890 876000 Fax: 02890 876001 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi, I thought you had already chosen a cloud-based system? Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 01 February 2013 15:05 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi, It appears this isn't a Helpdesk solution in the sense we are looking for. This is more for back-end stuff. Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Barry Toner Sent: 01 February 2013 13:55 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: RE: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi Stephen, I'd never heard of it. I've just asked Mr Google and found there's a number of products. The one that I'd be looking for I'm guessing is HP Service Desk, http://www.tech.proact.co.uk/hp/hp_openview_service_desk.htm Are you using this yourself? Can you comment on its accessibility? Thanks, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: 01 February 2013 13:17 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Have you looked in to hp openview? Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com 13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 Y2:13581ff6-edb8-4fe2-9d8d-9677a6e429d3 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 2:56 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Helpdesks you use in work Hi folks, We've been looking at various Helpdesk solutions , with varying degrees of accessibility. Up until (if I'm honest), yesterday we've not had any even rough requirements. I was wondering what you are currently using in your work places to log Helpdesk and Service requests? I've looked at Zendesk, (very flash orientated), Sysaid (flash), Freshdesk (HTML but limited functionality, not so much an IT helpdesk as a Servicedesk), Oxygen, and a few others. Things we'd like the Help/Service Deskt o have are as follows, 1. Integration with Active Directory. If it links directly without having to import/export this would be brilliant. 2. Users can change their Active Directory passwords. 3. Various reporting functions for Managers. 4. SLA integration 5. Dispatcher rules, (though this isnt' critical) 6. Knowledge base both for users and technicians. 7. Canned responses 8. Ability to enforce users submit tickets via the web portal, instead of email 9. Customisable categories of requests, that can expand into sub-categories. EG. Software links to Microsoft, links to Office, links to outlook. 10. Re-branding to fit with company design. 11. Ideally can be tested in the cloud but hosted in-house. If not ideally UK based data centres. We're really up against time and I'll owe you all a pint if you can give me some pointers of what you're using and if it meets any or all of the above requirements. Thanks, Barry. Barry Toner ICT Assistant ICT Department Clanmil Housing Northern Whig House 3 Waring Street Belfast BT1 2DX Tel: 02890 876000 Fax: 02890 876001 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012. Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it. It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application. Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever. So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility. Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is. Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer. So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago. Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on the team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity. However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems. I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements. I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage. I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me. So, tell me. What would you do in my situation? Regards Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" Thanks for the warning. That's hugely disappointing. Barry -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012. Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it. It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application. Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever. So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility. Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas r�omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s�anadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas r�omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s�anadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Hi Darragh: Its not just you. I've been complaining about SCCM 2012 for over two years now. I've been talking to Microsoft for over a year in one form or another. I'm seeing the exact same things you're seeing in the industry, and it scares me. VMWare will be in the same boat once the next major version comes out because the traditional VIC is going away to be replaced by a Flash-based web client. I'm getting us on 5.1 now so I can have some time to come up with a game plan. I keep testing SCCM 2012 builds, and have made it clear to Microsoft we will not be upgrading until these issues are fixed. Granted MS doesn't care but hey. I think both your conclusions are correct. I don't know why, but I get the impression screen reader vendors are more and more overwhelmed. Either they don't know what to do about it or there is nothing they can do about it. On the other hand, mainstream companies (with a few notable exceptions) do not see a need for accessibility and don't take the time to put it in. The System Center team at Microsoft has no idea how to test properly for accessibility. They do do some testing, but they don't have any actual blind users on staff using the System Center sweet and working through tasks, so the people at Microsoft honestly have no clue what to do either. Its a giant catch 22. Also, there is no one UI team developing the SCCM 2012 console. The ribbon control you're having issues with, for example, is actually developed by the .Net team and the System Center people have very little visibility into that code. On the screen reader company side, I'm having little success. I think its these people are just overwhelmed, and I think are slowly losing the edge. I'm having better luck with the actual software vendors, but not by a huge amount. As I mentioned last week, I have a PSS case open with Microsoft on the accessibility issues with SCCM. Its SR112042659740455. Darragh, I know you said you'd rather not go this route, but I think this is going to be our best shot at getting this fixed. I really think it would be good for you to figure out who your TAM is, contact him or her, and get your organization added to this case as well. If the Microsoft people see more people than just me are impacted by this then they will work harder to get this resolved, and the best way to do this is to attach everything to this support request I think. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:39 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is. Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer. So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago. Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on the team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity. However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems. I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements. I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage. I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me. So, tell me. What would you do in my situation? Regards Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" Thanks for the warning. That's hugely disappointing. Barry -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012. Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it. It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application. Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever. So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility. Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas r�omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s�anadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas r�omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s�anadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Hi Darragh: Its not just you. I've been complaining about SCCM 2012 for over two years now. I've been talking to Microsoft for over a year in one form or another. I'm seeing the exact same things you're seeing in

I'm glad to hear you say this Brian. Well, not glad. but relieved. So, do you have any idea what your going to do? I asked around last night what I should do about this. Someone said that I should administer SCCM using the powershell. That seems a very daunting prospect. Have you looked at powershell for SCCM? IT seems incredibly difficult. Regards Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Brian Moore To: Blind sysadmins list , Date: 14/02/2013 03:49 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" Hi Darragh. no, it certainly isn't only you who is in this boat. I do admin for a small org and less and less stuff is usable to administer. simple things like the gui interface on nas devices. Used to be a big supporter of synology products for small business. their raid implementation works well and they were really good for setting up granular permissions on storage volumes etc. as of now, the interface for all their products is completely ajax based and completely unusable with any screen reader I have tried which is most of them. new quote system same deal, gui is completely unusable. fortunately, we are still using sugar as a crm and that is somewhat usable as most of it can be manipulated with a shell. However, when I work with clients, more and more stuff is appearing that our tools just can't deal with. I have been looking hard for admin jobs with larger organizations, Government departments, banks etc and in all cases, there are lots of vmware vsphere and other tools which we can't work effectively with i.e sccm 2012. There is also the issue of people don't take you seriously unless you show up with lots of fancy powerpoint type things with lots of graphs and things to wow them. don't know about the rest of you but I can do the basics of that stuff and not much else. Never thought making nice slide show thingys would be a required skill in system admin stuff. Perhaps this is much different in large organizations that actually have an it staff unlike my 1 man shop but this stuff is turning into a real struggle. at this point, I am quite uncomfortable with the amount of things I am having to ask other people to do that properly are my job. NOt so much in this job because we are a small company so I can control the environment to a large extent but if I were to move to a bank or another large organization with things already in place would be interested in others thoughts on all this stuff as well. Brian. On 13/02/2013 4:34 PM, Ryan Shugart wrote: the industry, and it scares me. VMWare will be in the same boat once the next major version comes out because the traditional VIC is going away to be replaced by a Flash-based web client. I'm getting us on 5.1 now so I can have some time to come up with a game plan. I keep testing SCCM 2012 builds, and have made it clear to Microsoft we will not be upgrading until these issues are fixed. Granted MS doesn't care but hey.

I think both your conclusions are correct. I don't know

why, but I get the impression screen reader vendors are more and more overwhelmed. Either they don't know what to do about it or there is nothing they can do about it. On the other hand, mainstream companies (with a few notable exceptions) do not see a need for accessibility and don't take the time to put it in. The System Center team at Microsoft has no idea how to test properly for accessibility. They do do some testing, but they don't have any actual blind users on staff using the System Center sweet and working through tasks, so the people at Microsoft honestly have no clue what to do either. Its a giant catch 22.

Also, there is no one UI team developing the SCCM 2012

console. The ribbon control you're having issues with, for example, is actually developed by the .Net team and the System Center people have very little visibility into that code.

On the screen reader company side, I'm having little

Ryan

________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:39 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on

success. I think its these people are just overwhelmed, and I think are slowly losing the edge. I'm having better luck with the actual software vendors, but not by a huge amount. As I mentioned last week, I have a PSS case open with Microsoft on the accessibility issues with SCCM. Its SR112042659740455. Darragh, I know you said you'd rather not go this route, but I think this is going to be our best shot at getting this fixed. I really think it would be good for you to figure out who your TAM is, contact him or her, and get your organization added to this case as well. If the Microsoft people see more people than just me are impacted by this then they will work harder to get this resolved, and the best way to do this is to attach everything to this support request I think. the

team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh ? H?iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer...

Beartas r?omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s?anadh.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Hi Darragh: Its not just you. I've been complaining about SCCM 2012 for over two years now. I've been talking to Microsoft for over a year in one form or another. I'm seeing the exact same things you're seeing in

I'm glad to hear you say this Brian. Well, not glad. but relieved. So, do you have any idea what your going to do? I asked around last night what I should do about this. Someone said that I should administer SCCM using the powershell. That seems a very daunting prospect. Have you looked at powershell for SCCM? IT seems incredibly difficult. Regards Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Brian Moore To: Blind sysadmins list , Date: 14/02/2013 03:49 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" Hi Darragh. no, it certainly isn't only you who is in this boat. I do admin for a small org and less and less stuff is usable to administer. simple things like the gui interface on nas devices. Used to be a big supporter of synology products for small business. their raid implementation works well and they were really good for setting up granular permissions on storage volumes etc. as of now, the interface for all their products is completely ajax based and completely unusable with any screen reader I have tried which is most of them. new quote system same deal, gui is completely unusable. fortunately, we are still using sugar as a crm and that is somewhat usable as most of it can be manipulated with a shell. However, when I work with clients, more and more stuff is appearing that our tools just can't deal with. I have been looking hard for admin jobs with larger organizations, Government departments, banks etc and in all cases, there are lots of vmware vsphere and other tools which we can't work effectively with i.e sccm 2012. There is also the issue of people don't take you seriously unless you show up with lots of fancy powerpoint type things with lots of graphs and things to wow them. don't know about the rest of you but I can do the basics of that stuff and not much else. Never thought making nice slide show thingys would be a required skill in system admin stuff. Perhaps this is much different in large organizations that actually have an it staff unlike my 1 man shop but this stuff is turning into a real struggle. at this point, I am quite uncomfortable with the amount of things I am having to ask other people to do that properly are my job. NOt so much in this job because we are a small company so I can control the environment to a large extent but if I were to move to a bank or another large organization with things already in place would be interested in others thoughts on all this stuff as well. Brian. On 13/02/2013 4:34 PM, Ryan Shugart wrote: the industry, and it scares me. VMWare will be in the same boat once the next major version comes out because the traditional VIC is going away to be replaced by a Flash-based web client. I'm getting us on 5.1 now so I can have some time to come up with a game plan. I keep testing SCCM 2012 builds, and have made it clear to Microsoft we will not be upgrading until these issues are fixed. Granted MS doesn't care but hey.

I think both your conclusions are correct. I don't know

why, but I get the impression screen reader vendors are more and more overwhelmed. Either they don't know what to do about it or there is nothing they can do about it. On the other hand, mainstream companies (with a few notable exceptions) do not see a need for accessibility and don't take the time to put it in. The System Center team at Microsoft has no idea how to test properly for accessibility. They do do some testing, but they don't have any actual blind users on staff using the System Center sweet and working through tasks, so the people at Microsoft honestly have no clue what to do either. Its a giant catch 22.

Also, there is no one UI team developing the SCCM 2012

console. The ribbon control you're having issues with, for example, is actually developed by the .Net team and the System Center people have very little visibility into that code.

On the screen reader company side, I'm having little

Ryan

________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:39 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on

success. I think its these people are just overwhelmed, and I think are slowly losing the edge. I'm having better luck with the actual software vendors, but not by a huge amount. As I mentioned last week, I have a PSS case open with Microsoft on the accessibility issues with SCCM. Its SR112042659740455. Darragh, I know you said you'd rather not go this route, but I think this is going to be our best shot at getting this fixed. I really think it would be good for you to figure out who your TAM is, contact him or her, and get your organization added to this case as well. If the Microsoft people see more people than just me are impacted by this then they will work harder to get this resolved, and the best way to do this is to attach everything to this support request I think. the

team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh ? H?iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer...

Beartas r?omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s?anadh.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer...

Beartas r?omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s?anadh.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

Hi, I am in a similar boat re diagrams, graphs and different charts. These are being required a lot more to impress the directors etc, a lot of proposals I spend time writing up, referencing etc just don't get read, where as other proposals which work on a gant chart or similar are taken up. For the SCVMM stuff I have emailed a friend of mine at Microsoft who is also visually impaired, he may not be able to do anything, but I hope at least he can forward our concerns onto someone who can help us further, it may be a long road though. I am also in a fairly small company and control the environment tightly, however, products change and become less usable. For example, I am a big fan of the Mimecast services, but their web interface has become very tiresome to use now they upgraded it. I did forward my concerns onto the tech reps, plus also talked to the account manager about this when they did a review with us, but I haven't heard anything about this. My view on this is that we will do better in smaller companies where we can make the decisions and work as we find best, in larger companies it may be more rigid or there may be ways of working that don't go well with us which aren't going to change. One example I use here is RDP, whilst we can use RDP with Jaws I try and avoid this wherever possible, using remote admin shell, file sharing and remote admin tools wherever possible. I also believe this is better security for the server, as you aren't tying up resources for RDP sessions, and you are using your own system and GUI to do all the admin work. However, I realise it isn't yet a way that most people do their jobs, they like to RDP into the system and run from there, even if they only need to change a file etc. An example here is SQL Management Studio, I really don't know why anyone uses that on a server directly, when on your desktop you can do so much more with it, for example, researching queries, copy/paste, saving to your documents folder etc. However, when I install a SQL server without the management tools, the DBAs always complain that they can't manage the server, and yesterday one of the guys needed to run a single truncate table query, and they needed RDP access to do that! Luckily on this score I think Microsoft are going with the remote admin option, so hopefully this mindset will change. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Brian Moore [bmoore@screenreview.org] Sent: 14 February 2013 03:49 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Hi Darragh. no, it certainly isn't only you who is in this boat. I do admin for a small org and less and less stuff is usable to administer. simple things like the gui interface on nas devices. Used to be a big supporter of synology products for small business. their raid implementation works well and they were really good for setting up granular permissions on storage volumes etc. as of now, the interface for all their products is completely ajax based and completely unusable with any screen reader I have tried which is most of them. new quote system same deal, gui is completely unusable. fortunately, we are still using sugar as a crm and that is somewhat usable as most of it can be manipulated with a shell. However, when I work with clients, more and more stuff is appearing that our tools just can't deal with. I have been looking hard for admin jobs with larger organizations, Government departments, banks etc and in all cases, there are lots of vmware vsphere and other tools which we can't work effectively with i.e sccm 2012. There is also the issue of people don't take you seriously unless you show up with lots of fancy powerpoint type things with lots of graphs and things to wow them. don't know about the rest of you but I can do the basics of that stuff and not much else. Never thought making nice slide show thingys would be a required skill in system admin stuff. Perhaps this is much different in large organizations that actually have an it staff unlike my 1 man shop but this stuff is turning into a real struggle. at this point, I am quite uncomfortable with the amount of things I am having to ask other people to do that properly are my job. NOt so much in this job because we are a small company so I can control the environment to a large extent but if I were to move to a bank or another large organization with things already in place would be interested in others thoughts on all this stuff as well. Brian. On 13/02/2013 4:34 PM, Ryan Shugart wrote:

Hi Darragh: Its not just you. I've been complaining about SCCM 2012 for over two years now. I've been talking to Microsoft for over a year in one form or another. I'm seeing the exact same things you're seeing in the industry, and it scares me. VMWare will be in the same boat once the next major version comes out because the traditional VIC is going away to be replaced by a Flash-based web client. I'm getting us on 5.1 now so I can have some time to come up with a game plan. I keep testing SCCM 2012 builds, and have made it clear to Microsoft we will not be upgrading until these issues are fixed. Granted MS doesn't care but hey. I think both your conclusions are correct. I don't know why, but I get the impression screen reader vendors are more and more overwhelmed. Either they don't know what to do about it or there is nothing they can do about it. On the other hand, mainstream companies (with a few notable exceptions) do not see a need for accessibility and don't take the time to put it in. The System Center team at Microsoft has no idea how to test properly for accessibility. They do do some testing, but they don't have any actual blind users on staff using the System Center sweet and working through tasks, so the people at Microsoft honestly have no clue what to do either. Its a giant catch 22. Also, there is no one UI team developing the SCCM 2012 console. The ribbon control you're having issues with, for example, is actually developed by the .Net team and the System Center people have very little visibility into that code. On the screen reader company side, I'm having little success. I think its these people are just overwhelmed, and I think are slowly losing the edge. I'm having better luck with the actual software vendors, but not by a huge amount. As I mentioned last week, I have a PSS case open with Microsoft on the accessibility issues with SCCM. Its SR112042659740455. Darragh, I know you said you'd rather not go this route, but I think this is going to be our best shot at getting this fixed. I really think it would be good for you to figure out who your TAM is, contact him or her, and get your organization added to this case as well. If the Microsoft people see more people than just me are impacted by this then they will work harder to get this resolved, and the best way to do this is to attach everything to this support request I think. Ryan

________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:39 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on the team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

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-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hi Andrew: While I agree with you on a best practices standpoint to avoid using RDP, I don't see RDP as an accessibility issue. Actually I have to use RDP quite a bit to set up new servers, install various required software, etc. We have a copy of Window-Eyes installed on all our templates, and when I deploy a new server using the template, it just comes up, I find out the IP address then can RDP right in, launch Window-Eyes and I'm going. So, strictly from an accessibility standpoint RDP is fine. Its kind of annoying working with servers in remote offices where the network connection is bad. Last week I had to set up three new ESX hosts and some VMs on each that were going to be new DCs. RDPing into those DCs was quite a paine, but in the end it worked. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 2:43 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Hi, I am in a similar boat re diagrams, graphs and different charts. These are being required a lot more to impress the directors etc, a lot of proposals I spend time writing up, referencing etc just don't get read, where as other proposals which work on a gant chart or similar are taken up. For the SCVMM stuff I have emailed a friend of mine at Microsoft who is also visually impaired, he may not be able to do anything, but I hope at least he can forward our concerns onto someone who can help us further, it may be a long road though. I am also in a fairly small company and control the environment tightly, however, products change and become less usable. For example, I am a big fan of the Mimecast services, but their web interface has become very tiresome to use now they upgraded it. I did forward my concerns onto the tech reps, plus also talked to the account manager about this when they did a review with us, but I haven't heard anything about this. My view on this is that we will do better in smaller companies where we can make the decisions and work as we find best, in larger companies it may be more rigid or there may be ways of working that don't go well with us which aren't going to change. One example I use here is RDP, whilst we can use RDP with Jaws I try and avoid this wherever possible, using remote admin shell, file sharing and remote admin tools wherever possible. I also believe this is better security for the server, as you aren't tying up resources for RDP sessions, and you are using your own system and GUI to do all the admin work. However, I realise it isn't yet a way that most people do their jobs, they like to RDP into the system and run from there, even if they only need to change a file etc. An example here is SQL Management Studio, I really don't know why anyone uses that on a server directly, when on your desktop you can do so much more with it, for example, researching queries, copy/paste, sav! ing to your documents folder etc. However, when I install a SQL server without the management tools, the DBAs always complain that they can't manage the server, and yesterday one of the guys needed to run a single truncate table query, and they needed RDP access to do that! Luckily on this score I think Microsoft are going with the remote admin option, so hopefully this mindset will change. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Brian Moore [bmoore@screenreview.org] Sent: 14 February 2013 03:49 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Hi Darragh. no, it certainly isn't only you who is in this boat. I do admin for a small org and less and less stuff is usable to administer. simple things like the gui interface on nas devices. Used to be a big supporter of synology products for small business. their raid implementation works well and they were really good for setting up granular permissions on storage volumes etc. as of now, the interface for all their products is completely ajax based and completely unusable with any screen reader I have tried which is most of them. new quote system same deal, gui is completely unusable. fortunately, we are still using sugar as a crm and that is somewhat usable as most of it can be manipulated with a shell. However, when I work with clients, more and more stuff is appearing that our tools just can't deal with. I have been looking hard for admin jobs with larger organizations, Government departments, banks etc and in all cases, there are lots of vmware vsphere and other tools which we can't work effectively with i.e sccm 2012. There is also the issue of people don't take you seriously unless you show up with lots of fancy powerpoint type things with lots of graphs and things to wow them. don't know about the rest of you but I can do the basics of that stuff and not much else. Never thought making nice slide show thingys would be a required skill in system admin stuff. Perhaps this is much different in large organizations that actually have an it staff unlike my 1 man shop but this stuff is turning into a real struggle. at this point, I am quite uncomfortable with the amount of things I am having to ask other people to do that properly are my job. NOt so much in this job because we are a small company so I can control the environment to a large extent but if I were to move to a bank or another large organization with things already in place would be interested in others thoughts on all this stuff as well. Brian. On 13/02/2013 4:34 PM, Ryan Shugart wrote:

Hi Darragh: Its not just you. I've been complaining about SCCM 2012 for over two years now. I've been talking to Microsoft for over a year in one form or another. I'm seeing the exact same things you're seeing in the industry, and it scares me. VMWare will be in the same boat once the next major version comes out because the traditional VIC is going away to be replaced by a Flash-based web client. I'm getting us on 5.1 now so I can have some time to come up with a game plan. I keep testing SCCM 2012 builds, and have made it clear to Microsoft we will not be upgrading until these issues are fixed. Granted MS doesn't care but hey. I think both your conclusions are correct. I don't know why, but I get the impression screen reader vendors are more and more overwhelmed. Either they don't know what to do about it or there is nothing they can do about it. On the other hand, mainstream companies (with a few notable exceptions) do not see a need for accessibility and don't take the time to put it in. The System Center team at Microsoft has no idea how to test properly for accessibility. They do do some testing, but they don't have any actual blind users on staff using the System Center sweet and working through tasks, so the people at Microsoft honestly have no clue what to do either. Its a giant catch 22. Also, there is no one UI team developing the SCCM 2012 console. The ribbon control you're having issues with, for example, is actually developed by the .Net team and the System Center people have very little visibility into that code. On the screen reader company side, I'm having little success. I think its these people are just overwhelmed, and I think are slowly losing the edge. I'm having better luck with the actual software vendors, but not by a huge amount. As I mentioned last week, I have a PSS case open with Microsoft on the accessibility issues with SCCM. Its SR112042659740455. Darragh, I know you said you'd rather not go this route, but I think this is going to be our best shot at getting this fixed. I really think it would be good for you to figure out who your TAM is, contact him or her, and get your organization added to this case as well. If the Microsoft people see more people than just me are impacted by this then they will work harder to get this resolved, and the best way to do this is to attach everything to this support request I think. Ryan

________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:39 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on the team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Are you thinking about changing jobs? They say you should never wait until you get sacked before looking for another job. What about linux system administration? I don't know what it's like where you are but around here, linux systems admins can pick their job. Do you know anything about math? Math programming jobs are hot right now. Finance, genetics, weather forecasting, they're all getting heavily into using math to solve problems. Of course, I live in high-tehc heaven here in Madison, Wisconsin. Well, it's no Silicon Valley but there is a lot going on here. On 2/13/2013 11:39 AM, Darragh OHeiligh wrote:

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on the team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on

I am comfortable with Linux but I'm not sure if I'd have the skills required to administer it. Regards Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "John G. Heim" To: Blind sysadmins list , Date: 13/02/2013 22:20 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" Are you thinking about changing jobs? They say you should never wait until you get sacked before looking for another job. What about linux system administration? I don't know what it's like where you are but around here, linux systems admins can pick their job. Do you know anything about math? Math programming jobs are hot right now. Finance, genetics, weather forecasting, they're all getting heavily into using math to solve problems. Of course, I live in high-tehc heaven here in Madison, Wisconsin. Well, it's no Silicon Valley but there is a lot going on here. On 2/13/2013 11:39 AM, Darragh OHeiligh wrote: the

team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh ? H?iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

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Well, I taught myself linux systems administration. I was a programmer before that. I got myself a used PC, put linux on it, and went ahead and configured dns, dhcp, web, mail, etc. When I went to job interviews, I'd let them connect to my machine. If you have systems admin experience and you have a linux box at home that you admin yourself, that's good enough for most job interviews. I know employers always want experience. I often hear people complain that they can't get a job because they don't have experience and they can't get experience because they don't have a job. That's a huge problem. But it is also an example of employers not really doing things in their own best interest. Very few high tech jobs are the same 5 years down the road. What you know today probably isn't going to matter 5 years from now. The ability to learn new things is about 99% of success in high tech. I don't know you personally, Darragh, but if you are the kind of person who learns fast, you're doing the employer a favor by showing them that although you don't have professional linux admin experience, you are into linux and, more importantly, you can learn. I'm going to say that almost everybody on this list deserves a job. Just by virtue of what you've already accomplished, you're probably in the 90th percentile for high tech workers. You're probably smarter and better motivated than 90% of your competitors. The thing that's holding most of us back is our disability. Well, depending on how you want to look at it, you could say what's holding us back is accessibility or lack thereof. Anyway, the point is that when I went into job interviews, I really believed that although my experience might not have been quite up to what others might bring, I was doing the employer a favor by letting them interview me. I believe that to this day. On 2/14/2013 2:41 AM, Darragh OHeiligh wrote:

I am comfortable with Linux but I'm not sure if I'd have the skills required to administer it.

Regards

Darragh � H�iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "John G. Heim" To: Blind sysadmins list , Date: 13/02/2013 22:20 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Are you thinking about changing jobs? They say you should never wait until you get sacked before looking for another job. What about linux system administration? I don't know what it's like where you are but around here, linux systems admins can pick their job. Do you know anything about math? Math programming jobs are hot right now. Finance, genetics, weather forecasting, they're all getting heavily into using math to solve problems. Of course, I live in high-tehc heaven here in Madison, Wisconsin. Well, it's no Silicon Valley but there is a lot going on here.

...

Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is.

Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer.

So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago.

Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on

On 2/13/2013 11:39 AM, Darragh OHeiligh wrote: the

...

team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity.

However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems.

I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements.

I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage.

I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me.

So, tell me. What would you do in my situation?

Regards

Darragh ? H?iligh Fujitsu

Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie

From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins"

Thanks for the warning.

That's hugely disappointing.

Barry

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012.

Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it.

It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application.

Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever.

So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility.

Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer...

...

Beartas r?omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s?anadh.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

...

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Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer.

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...

Beartas r?omhphoist an Oireachtais agus s?anadh.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

...

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Hi Darragh, That's a depressing list. It reads like an obituary! I know this will probably read like one of those, don't use Windows use Linux things, often glib and arrogant questions but... is Zenprise chosen, implemented etc? If not what about www.meraki.com? I'm really liking what I see so far. Their MDM for IOS is wonderfully accessible. I suspect their Networking (depending on what you need to admin will be too). We've just bought 4 of their Aps and I'll be testing these in the coming weeks. Once we get Windows machines on it while there's a UI RDP there's also the ability to Commandline into boxes from the Web UI. Believe it or believe it not I'm actually finding allot of Help/Service Desks have horrible accessibility. Loads of Flash, Silverlite, AJAX, no thought whatsoever to keyboard commands. We must be on our 12th at least at the moment. My manager is getting really angcious now. Granted none of this was helped by when I was asking almost four months back what our requirements were, no one could give me an answer. Perhaps because IT has been neglected in here for at least a decade but still, allot of time is wasted poking around with even a basic list of requirements. I've had quotes from £500 a year to over £35000! All we need is a Helpdesk not a fully functional ITIL Management System and it's radically difficult to find something who's web demo doesn't make me want to jump through a wall. We thought we had something in the ways of www.spiceworks.com but having played with it the fields for requests can be altered the way we want, and there's other bits that require addons. The team aren't keen on using addons, because they are by third partys and all we'd need is for these to break something once we're live. I really feel for you because as a Sys Admin I'm discovering you need to be a jack of all trades and accessibility barriers are forcing the hand to specialise. It's hard to pick and choose. I guess I'm lucky in that I've just arrived in a small IT department who is going through modernisation. I can have influence in our systems from the get go. This experience with Helpdesks though is making me somewhat nervous though because eventually if we can't find one that meets the organisation's needs, our own team requirements and I can actually use I don't know where I'll be. While there's lots more in the ways of Admin I can do I'm not the Sys Admin here. I've some jobs that I'm taking on that would fall into that remit but we have to be careful not to take things away from our Sys Admin, because this would be a step back for him. I'm pushing remote admin tools, that will get me so far. I'm trying to keep my spirits up in the face of adversity. A fellow Technician who is a grade above me joined on Jan 3 and because the Sys Admin has RDP'd into everything for years hes' gave him a client and the new tech has allot more access than I have to systems so far. It's a delicate balance pushing for access to things because consoles and remote shells are going to make it more accessible for me, and I keep coming at it more from a compliance and best practice approach rather than an accessibility. I don't want to be seen as the Blindy problem child. I know I've sortive just joined in here and probably haven't offered much in the way of constructiveness, but I'm not long into work and nearly got wiped out by someone who didn't see the red light this morning, the odl nerves are stilla bit frayed. Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:39 To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Hugely dissappointing doesn't come close to what it is. Seriously. I keep saying this on this list. Am I alone in my experience? I said a few months ago that I'm running out of systems. It's only gettting worse now! SCOM 2012 and SCCM 2012 are a right off. Considering I was the main administrator of these systems in the 2007 version that's two more systems that I can no longer administer. So. lets look at the past year. Secure web gateway. lost last year. Secure mail gateway. Lost about six months ago. Diskeeper 12 clients. Lost three months ago. Whats up gold. lost access to the alerts console last year. Zenprise. Just implemented. Hundreds of unlabeled buttons. VSphere 5.1. Lots of unlabeled buttons. Web based version is no bettter. HP EVA. Tree view is partially broken since last update 2 months ago. Now, last year I was in a team of two. The other person was quite new and I was taking on the bulk of the work. He had the simple things like group policy and active directory. Now, one of the people who used to work here has come back. That in itsself is brilliant because he has a lot of experience and he took over from the newby. We have another person on the team now. He's been promoted from the service desk. I'm absolutely delighted for him. He deserves the promotion and the oppertunity. However, within no time he'll be passed the newby jobs and he'll be looking at the interesting systems. I used to read about people on various lists where they'd find that gradually systems became less accessible and after some time they'd simply find themselves surpluss to requirements. I am in danger of this happening to me at this stage. I don't have many systems left. I'm deliberitly holding back projects and upgrades because the new systems aren't accessible to me. So, tell me. What would you do in my situation? Regards Darragh Hiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: "Barry Toner" To: "Blind sysadmins list" , Date: 13/02/2013 17:28 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" Thanks for the warning. That's hugely disappointing. Barry -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: 13 February 2013 17:12 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] SCCM 2012. What a surprise So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012. Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it. It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application. Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever. So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility. Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas romhphoist an Oireachtais agus sanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas romhphoist an Oireachtais agus sanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...

So, Today was my first day really using SCCM 2012. Unfortunately, if your thinking of using it, just forget about it. It The Ribbin isn't accessible. Neither is the summary list on the bottom of the screen. There are a huge number of tab stops but yet you cant access the bottom left of the screen. Tab stops seem to be randem. The tab control gets focus in the most unusual situations. Oh, and the great thing? The stupid Jaws cursor doesn't work in the application. Why is it that more and more applications are becoming inaccessible? Is it just me who is having more problems? Think about it! More applications written in Java, Installers aren't accessible. More so now than ever. So, either screen reader developers aren't keeping up with modern technologies or companies who make these products are doing absolutely nothing when it comes to accessibility. Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...