I had just subscribed to this list and I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My name is Gianugo Rabellino, and I am the newly minted director of accessibility for Microsoft's Cloud+Enterprise division. My responsibility roughly spans all the server side product lineup from Microsoft (Windows Server, Azure, System Center, SQL Server, Power BI...) as well as our developer tools (Visual Studio, VS Code, .NET and more). As I'm ramping up and learning a lot about a11y, I found this list and I thought it would be useful for me to subscribe and at the same time offer to this group to be a Microsoft point of contact on top of our official channels. While I'm directly responsible for the Cloud+Enterprise lineup, I'm also part of a larger accessibility team across Microsoft, so I'd be more than happy to connect to relevant colleagues if you have questions or issues about other Microsoft products. My background in the past 25 years has been in open source, and as such I'm very passionate about having discussions in the open and interacting transparently with the communities I'm working with. To that extent, I am currently attending CSUN and I would love the opportunity to meet with anyone on this group who happens to be in San Diego these days. Please don't hesitate to contact me and we will certainly find a time. And if you're not at CSUN, feel free to reach out all the same, on this list or privately: I would really appreciate an opportunity to learn more and work together. Looking forward to our future conversations, -- Gianugo Rabellino
Well, since you asked, if MS Project Server edition is accessible I will be a happy person. I will be required to use it in a very short time. Vic Pereira Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046 Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 13:28 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions I had just subscribed to this list and I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My name is Gianugo Rabellino, and I am the newly minted director of accessibility for Microsoft's Cloud+Enterprise division. My responsibility roughly spans all the server side product lineup from Microsoft (Windows Server, Azure, System Center, SQL Server, Power BI...) as well as our developer tools (Visual Studio, VS Code, .NET and more). As I'm ramping up and learning a lot about a11y, I found this list and I thought it would be useful for me to subscribe and at the same time offer to this group to be a Microsoft point of contact on top of our official channels. While I'm directly responsible for the Cloud+Enterprise lineup, I'm also part of a larger accessibility team across Microsoft, so I'd be more than happy to connect to relevant colleagues if you have questions or issues about other Microsoft products. My background in the past 25 years has been in open source, and as such I'm very passionate about having discussions in the open and interacting transparently with the communities I'm working with. To that extent, I am currently attending CSUN and I would love the opportunity to meet with anyone on this group who happens to be in San Diego these days. Please don't hesitate to contact me and we will certainly find a time. And if you're not at CSUN, feel free to reach out all the same, on this list or privately: I would really appreciate an opportunity to learn more and work together. Looking forward to our future conversations, -- Gianugo Rabellino _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Plus one on that ... deploying soon as well ... I think. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 3:32 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions Well, since you asked, if MS Project Server edition is accessible I will be a happy person. I will be required to use it in a very short time. Vic Pereira Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046 Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 13:28 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions I had just subscribed to this list and I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My name is Gianugo Rabellino, and I am the newly minted director of accessibility for Microsoft's Cloud+Enterprise division. My responsibility roughly spans all the server side product lineup from Microsoft (Windows Server, Azure, System Center, SQL Server, Power BI...) as well as our developer tools (Visual Studio, VS Code, .NET and more). As I'm ramping up and learning a lot about a11y, I found this list and I thought it would be useful for me to subscribe and at the same time offer to this group to be a Microsoft point of contact on top of our official channels. While I'm directly responsible for the Cloud+Enterprise lineup, I'm also part of a larger accessibility team across Microsoft, so I'd be more than happy to connect to relevant colleagues if you have questions or issues about other Microsoft products. My background in the past 25 years has been in open source, and as such I'm very passionate about having discussions in the open and interacting transparently with the communities I'm working with. To that extent, I am currently attending CSUN and I would love the opportunity to meet with anyone on this group who happens to be in San Diego these days. Please don't hesitate to contact me and we will certainly find a time. And if you're not at CSUN, feel free to reach out all the same, on this list or privately: I would really appreciate an opportunity to learn more and work together. Looking forward to our future conversations, -- Gianugo Rabellino _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Thanks for your input - I certainly understand your frustration. Despite the "server" in the name, this product is managed by our Application Services Group (as is Sharepoint) so I'm not directly involved. I understand however that they are aware of the situation and working to address it.
The Disability Answer Desk (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/answerdesk/accessibility) can point you to more details and resources, as well as keep you posted with updates. I will keep an eye on it, and please keep me posted on upcoming deployments.
--
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 1:05 PM
To: 'Blind sysadmins list'
Thanks for your input - I certainly understand your frustration. Despite the "server" in the name, this product is managed by our Application Services Group (as is Sharepoint) so I'm not directly involved. I understand however that they are aware of the situation and working to address it.
The Disability Answer Desk (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/answerdesk/accessibility) can point you to more details and resources, as well as keep you posted with updates. I will keep an eye on it, and please keep me posted on upcoming deployments.
--
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 1:05 PM
To: 'Blind sysadmins list'
Hi Gianugo, Welcome to this group. I am really pleased to see someone from Microsoft join the group, and hope you won't be bombarded with lots of people asking you for access tips or to vent issues with Microsoft products. I am the group owner, and I came into the sysadmin world with a Linux intro at home, followed by a swift Windows conversion when I joined a company. I have mainly found the Microsoft products really usable with speech, and in fact chose Windows because my sighted friends using Linux were mainly using GUIs, which were in most cases non-standard and the access to those was very sketchy. I am a fan of the remote administration tools, so rather than remoting onto a server and getting the job done, I prefer accessing the server remotely via a remote access protocol (RSAT tools are a very good example of this working well). PowerShell remoting is another way this works well. Recently I have joined a DevOps team and whilst we are using the Windows stack, the senior guys of the team mainly have a Linux background, and so it is quite a challenge to fit in some of the technologies in a Windows stack. It is getting a lot easier now, and I find the concept of defining stacks using code really helpful as someone with limited vision, because I just write the code, and can see the end product, which includes infrastructure diagrams etc. Not fully there yet, but we're getting closer. I manage Office365 tenants for a few organisations (mainly charities that have donations from Microsoft), and I have found the recent console slightly behind in access to its older brother. This may just be because I am new to the new console, and in fact that is one thing which needs to be made clear: Sometimes there isn't an access issue, but because everything has moved round from where it was, it can take a long time for screen reader users to catch up. I tend to use PowerShell to do most of the work these days, illuminating the need for a console altogether, but it may be something to look at. Looking forward to future discussions with you on the list, Best, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino Sent: 23 March 2016 18:28 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions I had just subscribed to this list and I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My name is Gianugo Rabellino, and I am the newly minted director of accessibility for Microsoft's Cloud+Enterprise division. My responsibility roughly spans all the server side product lineup from Microsoft (Windows Server, Azure, System Center, SQL Server, Power BI...) as well as our developer tools (Visual Studio, VS Code, .NET and more). As I'm ramping up and learning a lot about a11y, I found this list and I thought it would be useful for me to subscribe and at the same time offer to this group to be a Microsoft point of contact on top of our official channels. While I'm directly responsible for the Cloud+Enterprise lineup, I'm also part of a larger accessibility team across Microsoft, so I'd be more than happy to connect to relevant colleagues if you have questions or issues about other Microsoft products. My background in the past 25 years has been in open source, and as such I'm very passionate about having discussions in the open and interacting transparently with the communities I'm working with. To that extent, I am currently attending CSUN and I would love the opportunity to meet with anyone on this group who happens to be in San Diego these days. Please don't hesitate to contact me and we will certainly find a time. And if you're not at CSUN, feel free to reach out all the same, on this list or privately: I would really appreciate an opportunity to learn more and work together. Looking forward to our future conversations, -- Gianugo Rabellino _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Thanks Andrew for the warm welcome, and thanks for your context on devops. Indeed I believe that devops can be a great opportunity: I have to confess my undying love for command line interfaces and scripts rather than GUIs, so no surprise here.
Something I'd be keen to know, in fact, is whether there is something we could or should do on the command line front to make it more accessible and usable. Note that this is no excuse to delay or underperform in providing accessible web and GUI interfaces: I consider that an absolute minimum bar that needs to be applied across the board with no exceptions, and I trust we will get there.
At the same time though, and all things being equal, I wonder if you and others in this community have a preference given the choice of a GUI interface or a console/command line environment to perform typical system administration tasks. In both cases, it would be very helpful for me to understand what are the gaps and where we can work to make the system administration experience more productive from an accessibility point of view.
Thanks again for taking the time to write this, and likewise I'm looking forward to future engagements with this list.
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 3:20 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks Andrew for the warm welcome, and thanks for your context on devops. Indeed I believe that devops can be a great opportunity: I have to confess my undying love for command line interfaces and scripts rather than GUIs, so no surprise here.
Something I'd be keen to know, in fact, is whether there is something we could or should do on the command line front to make it more accessible and usable. Note that this is no excuse to delay or underperform in providing accessible web and GUI interfaces: I consider that an absolute minimum bar that needs to be applied across the board with no exceptions, and I trust we will get there.
At the same time though, and all things being equal, I wonder if you and others in this community have a preference given the choice of a GUI interface or a console/command line environment to perform typical system administration tasks. In both cases, it would be very helpful for me to understand what are the gaps and where we can work to make the system administration experience more productive from an accessibility point of view.
Thanks again for taking the time to write this, and likewise I'm looking forward to future engagements with this list.
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 3:20 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
I'll come in on this ... my preference for management (once I become
proficient at it enough where commands will just pop out of my head at
random) is PowerShell. I'm very weak in it by most standards, but I'm using
the accessibility struggle as my excuse to get better at it quicker. (I love
the command line so much that I drive my GUI-thinking friend crazy most of
the time.) I currently have AD deployed both at my place of employment, as
well as at my house, and I love it ... using AD, WSUS, WDS (though the only
way WDS works for us is with unattended setup files, and even then I'm not
sure how they work, since writing those always takes a sighted tester
first), and I also have an IIS server at my house, with SQL and Sharepoint
running elsewhere. So, you can see I'm all over the place, setting up more
stuff than is truly necessary because I want to be versed in as many
products from Microsoft as I can. Not only to scout out accessibility
issues. Certain areas that need serious work though, are the Sharepoint
administration panel, the Server Manager dashboard (many elements don't read
checked or unchecked, for instance when installing them, and also, when
there are edit fields to type information in, those simply read in screen
reader's views as "edit" instead of the actual field name (installing WSUS
via the GUI is a good example, for instance, if you want to change the
database from the default WID configuration )), and many others. Honestly,
not sure why the open source screen reader NVDA's not been included into the
Windows setup experience. And, another thing to keep in mind ... installing
windows on Hyper-V would be much easier if a virtual sound device could be
configured ... instead, in order to get audio, we have to use enhanced
session mode, which doesn't help during the installation process. Also the
option for speech during recoveries such as emergency console on NanoServer,
DSRM, WinPE (for capturing images when unattended setup has not been
written), andso on. After all, you guys were the creators of UEFI, weren't
you? Use your own process to your advantage to make the BIOS talk ... so to
speak. Just my two cents ... will probably have more coming in the not too
distant future.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of
Gianugo Rabellino
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:16 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks Katherine, this is very useful to hear. I'm earmarking your comment on Server Manager, Hyper-V and recovery mode, and I will definitely pass your feedback on Sharepoint on - if you have more details on the latter, that would be great as well.
Apologies for the delayed reply - CSUN was definitely busier than I anticipated (and in a very good way!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 6:50 AM
To: 'Blind sysadmins list'
Thanks Katherine, this is very useful to hear. I'm earmarking your comment on Server Manager, Hyper-V and recovery mode, and I will definitely pass your feedback on Sharepoint on - if you have more details on the latter, that would be great as well.
Apologies for the delayed reply - CSUN was definitely busier than I anticipated (and in a very good way!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 6:50 AM
To: 'Blind sysadmins list'
Hi,
I have a possibly interesting take on the GUI verses CLI topic from a Windows standpoint in any case. I have some sight, and can see specific items on the screen. When I get presented with the Windows CLI when doing a core server OS, it is in a very small window on the screen, and isn’t hugely easy to see for me at any rate. I also like the feedback the GUI gives me for that initial setup, where I can see the windows opening and closing, even if I am using my memory to type in specific keystrokes to get to where I want to be. I know the CLI should be easier, but for me at the start I prefer the GUI, then once I can remote to the server using PowerShell remoting or similar, I carry on with that. I am very much looking forward to SSH support in 2016.
Thanks.
Andrew.
________________________________________
From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Gianugo Rabellino [Gianugo.Rabellino@microsoft.com]
Sent: 24 March 2016 02:15
To: Blind sysadmins list
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions
Thanks Andrew for the warm welcome, and thanks for your context on devops. Indeed I believe that devops can be a great opportunity: I have to confess my undying love for command line interfaces and scripts rather than GUIs, so no surprise here.
Something I'd be keen to know, in fact, is whether there is something we could or should do on the command line front to make it more accessible and usable. Note that this is no excuse to delay or underperform in providing accessible web and GUI interfaces: I consider that an absolute minimum bar that needs to be applied across the board with no exceptions, and I trust we will get there.
At the same time though, and all things being equal, I wonder if you and others in this community have a preference given the choice of a GUI interface or a console/command line environment to perform typical system administration tasks. In both cases, it would be very helpful for me to understand what are the gaps and where we can work to make the system administration experience more productive from an accessibility point of view.
Thanks again for taking the time to write this, and likewise I'm looking forward to future engagements with this list.
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 3:20 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi,
I have a possibly interesting take on the GUI verses CLI topic from a Windows standpoint in any case. I have some sight, and can see specific items on the screen. When I get presented with the Windows CLI when doing a core server OS, it is in a very small window on the screen, and isn’t hugely easy to see for me at any rate. I also like the feedback the GUI gives me for that initial setup, where I can see the windows opening and closing, even if I am using my memory to type in specific keystrokes to get to where I want to be. I know the CLI should be easier, but for me at the start I prefer the GUI, then once I can remote to the server using PowerShell remoting or similar, I carry on with that. I am very much looking forward to SSH support in 2016.
Thanks.
Andrew.
________________________________________
From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] on behalf of Gianugo Rabellino [Gianugo.Rabellino@microsoft.com]
Sent: 24 March 2016 02:15
To: Blind sysadmins list
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions
Thanks Andrew for the warm welcome, and thanks for your context on devops. Indeed I believe that devops can be a great opportunity: I have to confess my undying love for command line interfaces and scripts rather than GUIs, so no surprise here.
Something I'd be keen to know, in fact, is whether there is something we could or should do on the command line front to make it more accessible and usable. Note that this is no excuse to delay or underperform in providing accessible web and GUI interfaces: I consider that an absolute minimum bar that needs to be applied across the board with no exceptions, and I trust we will get there.
At the same time though, and all things being equal, I wonder if you and others in this community have a preference given the choice of a GUI interface or a console/command line environment to perform typical system administration tasks. In both cases, it would be very helpful for me to understand what are the gaps and where we can work to make the system administration experience more productive from an accessibility point of view.
Thanks again for taking the time to write this, and likewise I'm looking forward to future engagements with this list.
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 3:20 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks Andrew - that's insightful. As I was discussing with CSUN attendees yesterday, you made me realize I wasn't considering low vision scenarios and how important they are. As I ramp up, I can only apologize for making newbie mistakes and going through teething problems. I do extremely care about this kind of feedback, so please keep at it.
Thanks,
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:00 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks Andrew - that's insightful. As I was discussing with CSUN attendees yesterday, you made me realize I wasn't considering low vision scenarios and how important they are. As I ramp up, I can only apologize for making newbie mistakes and going through teething problems. I do extremely care about this kind of feedback, so please keep at it.
Thanks,
Gianugo
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:00 AM
To: Blind sysadmins list
I'll certainly keep the feedback coming ... only a little while longer till
we get Sharepoint fully deployed, I think.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of
Gianugo Rabellino
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:33 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hello Gianugo,
I'm delighted that you are a member of this list.
I've worked in various sys admin roles for about ten years now on systems ranging from 20 servers to 600 servers with infrastructures that must be available 24/7 365 days a year.
These systems have ranged from all physical to a mash of virtual based on Hyper-V, eSXI and even Xen.
I've worked on SCCM, SCOM, Exchange, Sharepoint, sQL, DFS, Azure, Office365 and of course active directory.
The main thing I have noticed, and I'm more than happy to be corrected is that as a sys admin, it's often impossible to specialize on a technology when your responsibilities are so diverse. Therefore, if I was working in Exchange all day I'd probably have no problem using the Powershell CLI for exchange for example. However, At 9AM I could be working in SCCM. At 10AM, I could be working on DFS. At 10:30 I could be working on Azure. Exploring these systems is primarily made easy using the UI. The CLI is generally great for automating batches of jobs or large scale role outs but I don't find it great for getting information at a glance.
For example. I set up a forwarding mailbox last week for a project. I hate forwarding mailboxes but it's a messy short term solution to a temporary problem. I go into exchange, expand the server by hitting right arrow, I press m for mail boxes and all the mailboxes are there. I start typing the first few letters of the mailbox name and because I've customized Jaws, the screen reader that I use, I get important information about that mailbox quickly and accurately. So last Monday for example, I noticed that the mailbox had grown by 600MB over the weekend. I wasn't necessarily looking for that. The information was exposed to me through the UI.
In the CLI I'd need to know that I was looking for this information.
Sorry if this isn't particularly clear. I need to give this some more thought and come back to you with a more comprehensive answer but it might get some discussion going.
I love powershell and CLI environments. I started with Dos in 1993, I played around with Red hat in 1998. I've been a user of CLI's since I started with technology. I really see the benefit of doing everything or almost everything using powershell. If I'm missing something in my assessment of the benefits or draw backs of powershell then I'm all ears.
I hope this conversation continues.
Again, I'm also delighted that you are on this list. It is by far the best list out there that will give you an idea of the areas blind system administrators work within and the challenges that we are faced with. I know that everyone will be very happy to work with you.
Regards
Darragh Ó Héiligh
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino
Sent: Thursday 24 March 2016 02:16
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks Darragh, you make a very interesting point.
I started my career as a sysadmin managing a few thousand servers in what back then was the largest business ISP in Italy, with a focus on hosting. As such, diversity was the name of the game: in one day I would go from Windows 3.1 machines driving satellite antennas to closet-size Sun E10000, with everything in between. As the vast majority were Unix servers, I lived and breathed in the command line, with the occasional VNC session. To this day, the first thing I install on a new Windows laptop is Cygwin. As such, I'm afraid I may be the typical man with a hammer who thinks everything is a nail.
It would be great for me to understand the right balance between GUIs and CLIs with the context of this list in mind. I tend to think that nothing beats grep, awk and friends, but your example on mailbox size is definitely spot on.
Thanks,
Gianugo Rabellino
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 3:54 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Thanks Darragh, you make a very interesting point.
I started my career as a sysadmin managing a few thousand servers in what back then was the largest business ISP in Italy, with a focus on hosting. As such, diversity was the name of the game: in one day I would go from Windows 3.1 machines driving satellite antennas to closet-size Sun E10000, with everything in between. As the vast majority were Unix servers, I lived and breathed in the command line, with the occasional VNC session. To this day, the first thing I install on a new Windows laptop is Cygwin. As such, I'm afraid I may be the typical man with a hammer who thinks everything is a nail.
It would be great for me to understand the right balance between GUIs and CLIs with the context of this list in mind. I tend to think that nothing beats grep, awk and friends, but your example on mailbox size is definitely spot on.
Thanks,
Gianugo Rabellino
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 3:54 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hello Gianugo,
I'm delighted that you are a member of this list.
I've worked in various sys admin roles for about ten years now on systems ranging from 20 servers to 600 servers with infrastructures that must be available 24/7 365 days a year.
These systems have ranged from all physical to a mash of virtual based on Hyper-V, eSXI and even Xen.
I've worked on SCCM, SCOM, Exchange, Sharepoint, sQL, DFS, Azure, Office365 and of course active directory.
The main thing I have noticed, and I'm more than happy to be corrected is that as a sys admin, it's often impossible to specialize on a technology when your responsibilities are so diverse. Therefore, if I was working in Exchange all day I'd probably have no problem using the Powershell CLI for exchange for example. However, At 9AM I could be working in SCCM. At 10AM, I could be working on DFS. At 10:30 I could be working on Azure. Exploring these systems is primarily made easy using the UI. The CLI is generally great for automating batches of jobs or large scale role outs but I don't find it great for getting information at a glance.
For example. I set up a forwarding mailbox last week for a project. I hate forwarding mailboxes but it's a messy short term solution to a temporary problem. I go into exchange, expand the server by hitting right arrow, I press m for mail boxes and all the mailboxes are there. I start typing the first few letters of the mailbox name and because I've customized Jaws, the screen reader that I use, I get important information about that mailbox quickly and accurately. So last Monday for example, I noticed that the mailbox had grown by 600MB over the weekend. I wasn't necessarily looking for that. The information was exposed to me through the UI.
In the CLI I'd need to know that I was looking for this information.
Sorry if this isn't particularly clear. I need to give this some more thought and come back to you with a more comprehensive answer but it might get some discussion going.
I love powershell and CLI environments. I started with Dos in 1993, I played around with Red hat in 1998. I've been a user of CLI's since I started with technology. I really see the benefit of doing everything or almost everything using powershell. If I'm missing something in my assessment of the benefits or draw backs of powershell then I'm all ears.
I hope this conversation continues.
Again, I'm also delighted that you are on this list. It is by far the best list out there that will give you an idea of the areas blind system administrators work within and the challenges that we are faced with. I know that everyone will be very happy to work with you.
Regards
Darragh Ó Héiligh
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino
Sent: Thursday 24 March 2016 02:16
To: Blind sysadmins list
Hi Gianugo, Welcome to this group. I am really pleased to see someone from Microsoft join the group, and hope you won't be bombarded with lots of people asking you for access tips or to vent issues with Microsoft products. I am the group owner, and I came into the sysadmin world with a Linux intro at home, followed by a swift Windows conversion when I joined a company. I have mainly found the Microsoft products really usable with speech, and in fact chose Windows because my sighted friends using Linux were mainly using GUIs, which were in most cases non-standard and the access to those was very sketchy. I am a fan of the remote administration tools, so rather than remoting onto a server and getting the job done, I prefer accessing the server remotely via a remote access protocol (RSAT tools are a very good example of this working well). PowerShell remoting is another way this works well. Recently I have joined a DevOps team and whilst we are using the Windows stack, the senior guys of the team mainly have a Linux background, and so it is quite a challenge to fit in some of the technologies in a Windows stack. It is getting a lot easier now, and I find the concept of defining stacks using code really helpful as someone with limited vision, because I just write the code, and can see the end product, which includes infrastructure diagrams etc. Not fully there yet, but we're getting closer. I manage Office365 tenants for a few organisations (mainly charities that have donations from Microsoft), and I have found the recent console slightly behind in access to its older brother. This may just be because I am new to the new console, and in fact that is one thing which needs to be made clear: Sometimes there isn't an access issue, but because everything has moved round from where it was, it can take a long time for screen reader users to catch up. I tend to use PowerShell to do most of the work these days, illuminating the need for a console altogether, but it may be something to look at. Looking forward to future discussions with you on the list, Best, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino Sent: 23 March 2016 18:28 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Introductions I had just subscribed to this list and I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My name is Gianugo Rabellino, and I am the newly minted director of accessibility for Microsoft's Cloud+Enterprise division. My responsibility roughly spans all the server side product lineup from Microsoft (Windows Server, Azure, System Center, SQL Server, Power BI...) as well as our developer tools (Visual Studio, VS Code, .NET and more). As I'm ramping up and learning a lot about a11y, I found this list and I thought it would be useful for me to subscribe and at the same time offer to this group to be a Microsoft point of contact on top of our official channels. While I'm directly responsible for the Cloud+Enterprise lineup, I'm also part of a larger accessibility team across Microsoft, so I'd be more than happy to connect to relevant colleagues if you have questions or issues about other Microsoft products. My background in the past 25 years has been in open source, and as such I'm very passionate about having discussions in the open and interacting transparently with the communities I'm working with. To that extent, I am currently attending CSUN and I would love the opportunity to meet with anyone on this group who happens to be in San Diego these days. Please don't hesitate to contact me and we will certainly find a time. And if you're not at CSUN, feel free to reach out all the same, on this list or privately: I would really appreciate an opportunity to learn more and work together. Looking forward to our future conversations, -- Gianugo Rabellino _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
participants (5)
-
Andrew Hodgson -
Darragh Ó Héiligh -
Gianugo Rabellino -
Katherine Moss -
vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca