Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Andrew Hodgson

9 May 2023 9 May '23

1:29 p.m.

Hi. I’m now using Sendgrid as the outbound mailer on this list going forward. This is because my Ips are now blacklisted on Office365 which means even delivery to my own address isn’t possible. Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies. The disadvantage to this is that Mailman no longer handles bounce unsubscriptions so I need to be a bit careful here. Thanks. Andrew. -- CONTINO This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views, which are not the views of industry, unless specifically stated. https://www.contino.io http://www.contino.io

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Steve Nutt

9 May 9 May

1:43 p.m.

Hi Andrew, Yes, I'm getting the same problem on my Vultr instance. I can't send to iCloud addresses. How does Sendgrid work? Is it an SMTP relay? Thanks. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 2:30 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Andrew Hodgson Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi. I’m now using Sendgrid as the outbound mailer on this list going forward. This is because my Ips are now blacklisted on Office365 which means even delivery to my own address isn’t possible. Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies. The disadvantage to this is that Mailman no longer handles bounce unsubscriptions so I need to be a bit careful here. Thanks. Andrew. -- CONTINO This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views, which are not the views of industry, unless specifically stated. https://www.contino.io http://www.contino.io _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Andrew Hodgson

2:26 p.m.

Hi. Yes its an expensive SMTP relay. There are probably cheaper systems out there which I am still investigating but they need to play nicely with the mailing list software. For example I tried to use Amazon Simple Email service which is cheaper but it insisted on re-writing the Message-Id header which breaks the threading in Mailman and causes a heap of issues with the archiver. With a lot of these systems they want you to send from a specific address only but some offer the ability to allow you to send from any address on the domain which is how I have this setup. This refers to the return envelope so we can do that for the lists. It does mean though that Sendgrid re-writes the return envelope to itself which causes problems for the list bounce processor as it will never receive incoming bounces as they go to Sendgrid instead. Most offer a free trial that allow around 100 emails a month, that may be ok for your use cases but for the lists that will be gone on the first message as I have over 100 subscribers each getting a single message per delivery. Sendgrid costs $20 per month for 50k emails a month, that is expensive in my book so I will continue to test for other providers. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 2:44 PM To: 'Mailing list for blind system administrators' Cc: Steve Nutt Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi Andrew, Yes, I'm getting the same problem on my Vultr instance. I can't send to iCloud addresses. How does Sendgrid work? Is it an SMTP relay? Thanks. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 2:30 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Andrew Hodgson Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi. I’m now using Sendgrid as the outbound mailer on this list going forward. This is because my Ips are now blacklisted on Office365 which means even delivery to my own address isn’t possible. Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies. The disadvantage to this is that Mailman no longer handles bounce unsubscriptions so I need to be a bit careful here. Thanks. Andrew. -- CONTINO This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views, which are not the views of industry, unless specifically stated. https://www.contino.io http://www.contino.io _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Jason White

2:32 p.m.

On 9/5/23 09:29, Andrew Hodgson via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...

Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies.

I've noticed the same, although I have succeeded so far in not ending up on a block list with any of the large providers. I suspect intermittent delivery issues from this address, but I don't have any clear evidence that it's a result of being hosted on my own server. My other e-mail address is with Microsoft 365, which gives better fault tolerance and spam filtering than I can implement myself. On the other hand, Microsoft 365's spam filter generates false positives as well, sometimes for legitimate mailing list traffic from a large provider - resolved for now by placing the affected addresses on an allow list.

Andrew Hodgson

2:44 p.m.

Hi. For me what has killed it is lack of email sending or sporadic sending. When I ran the lists for BCAB I sent out nearly 5000 emails a day and had very good response rates for removing Ips from blocklists etc. These days I am lucky if I get a response and its most often a no. Having my own email rejected by Office365 this morning was the last straw. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 3:33 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now On 9/5/23 09:29, Andrew Hodgson via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...

Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies.

Ben Mustill-Rose

8:52 p.m.

Hi, I'll be interested in hearing/seeing how it goes. I implemented Sendgrid for the Braillists when I was volunteering with them for a bunch of automated email reminder systems I'd built: we were seeing a 5 to 7% block rate on our messages (look at blocks under the statistics section of the dashboard) with Microsoft-owned addresses being the main offenders. We had a feeling that the real number was actually higher based on feedback we received, but ultimately weren't really able to pin down the issue - E.G. was it a non-technical person not knowing they had received the message etc. We had a bit of a back and fourth with support over this because as you know one of the big selling points of the service is its delivery rate, but ultimately the answer we got was to purchase a dedicated IP from them (by default your messages are sent using a pool of shared IPs) but we couldn't really justify the cost. Maybe you'll have better luck though; we were using their Transactional Email product and I'm guessing you're using something different? Cheers, Ben. On 5/9/23, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Hi.

For me what has killed it is lack of email sending or sporadic sending. When I ran the lists for BCAB I sent out nearly 5000 emails a day and had very good response rates for removing Ips from blocklists etc. These days I am lucky if I get a response and its most often a no. Having my own email rejected by Office365 this morning was the last straw.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 3:33 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 9/5/23 09:29, Andrew Hodgson via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies.

I've noticed the same, although I have succeeded so far in not ending up on a block list with any of the large providers. I suspect intermittent delivery issues from this address, but I don't have any clear evidence that it's a result of being hosted on my own server.

My other e-mail address is with Microsoft 365, which gives better fault tolerance and spam filtering than I can implement myself. On the other hand, Microsoft 365's spam filter generates false positives as well, sometimes for legitimate mailing list traffic from a large provider - resolved for now by placing the affected addresses on an allow list.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Andrew Hodgson

9:49 p.m.

Hi. Right now I have 97% delivery from the emails going through this list as well as a couple of emails coming to me from Mastodon and some notification services I run. I am struggling to identify the 3% right now as every other report I pull up seems to be empty. I will wait tomorrow. At this rate I need to have more than 10,000 emails per month which means I am on the right package but the list will probably quieten down after this flurry of traffic so I need to work out the cheapest provider and whether its better to go with something that gives me around 10k emails per month and then I pay overage traffic when you lot are noisy. One setting I didn't see until later is the ability to have the return envelope be from a custom domain as right now its with Sendgrid. Doesn't make much difference really but I would have gone that route if I had known about it. I can't see an option to change this now in the web interface without deleting and re-adding the verified domain and going through the DNS verification again which is not something I will do just now. What's really concerning me with this setup is Mailman doesn't see the bounce messages so will keep trying to deliver new messages to people who have potentially deleted their account. That gives us bad ratings and without the NDRs being delivered back to Mailman there is nothing I can do. I haven't seen this type of email system though which doesn't change the return envelope. I'm sending out the emails via authenticated SMTP from Exim. There is a REST interface which is probably easier for most app developers to use but in the email world its easier to stick with SMTP. Mailman expects to deliver the list traffic to a local MTA on localhost, and I find if I do anything else it slows down the delivery cignificantly. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 9:53 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi, I'll be interested in hearing/seeing how it goes. I implemented Sendgrid for the Braillists when I was volunteering with them for a bunch of automated email reminder systems I'd built: we were seeing a 5 to 7% block rate on our messages (look at blocks under the statistics section of the dashboard) with Microsoft-owned addresses being the main offenders. We had a feeling that the real number was actually higher based on feedback we received, but ultimately weren't really able to pin down the issue - E.G. was it a non-technical person not knowing they had received the message etc. We had a bit of a back and fourth with support over this because as you know one of the big selling points of the service is its delivery rate, but ultimately the answer we got was to purchase a dedicated IP from them (by default your messages are sent using a pool of shared IPs) but we couldn't really justify the cost. Maybe you'll have better luck though; we were using their Transactional Email product and I'm guessing you're using something different? Cheers, Ben. On 5/9/23, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Hi.

For me what has killed it is lack of email sending or sporadic sending. When I ran the lists for BCAB I sent out nearly 5000 emails a day and had very good response rates for removing Ips from blocklists etc. These days I am lucky if I get a response and its most often a no. Having my own email rejected by Office365 this morning was the last straw.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 3:33 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 9/5/23 09:29, Andrew Hodgson via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
Honestly its really hard work running a mail server these days that isn’t one of the big companies.

I've noticed the same, although I have succeeded so far in not ending up on a block list with any of the large providers. I suspect intermittent delivery issues from this address, but I don't have any clear evidence that it's a result of being hosted on my own server.

My other e-mail address is with Microsoft 365, which gives better fault tolerance and spam filtering than I can implement myself. On the other hand, Microsoft 365's spam filter generates false positives as well, sometimes for legitimate mailing list traffic from a large provider - resolved for now by placing the affected addresses on an allow list.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Jason White

10 May 10 May

9:45 p.m.

On 9/5/23 16:52, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:

...

we were seeing a 5 to 7% block rate on our messages (look at blocks under the statistics section of the dashboard) with Microsoft-owned addresses being the main offenders. We had a feeling that the real number was actually higher based on feedback we received, but ultimately weren't really able to pin down the issue - E.G. was it a non-technical person not knowing they had received the message etc.

With my server (hosted on Linode), it isn't clear whether there are systematic delivery problems at all. Non-responses can have multiple explanations. I know my messages were misclassified as spam by at least one organization hosted by Microsoft 365, but I've sent mail to various other Microsoft 365-hosted addresses without issue. In the confirmed recent case of a false positive, apparently mail from other sources was sometimes misclassified also; hence it wasn't specific to my server. In addition, my server receives a 100% score from the testing tool at internet.nl, suggesting that SPF, DKIM, DMARC, DNSSec and DANE are all configured properly.

Andrew Hodgson

10:49 p.m.

Hi. Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. When I first started sending out bulk messages I had issues but spent time with setting up feedback loops and sending out unblock requests for my IP. For that reason I was quite anal in keeping the IP address I was assigned by the provider at the time. I think I had that address for just over 10 years. I would rather have downtime when rebuilding the host rather than change IP. Literally within a week of the large list moving elsewhere I started experiencing deliverability issues from this list in particular with the major providers. All the unblock and feedback loop responses went largely ignored. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 10:46 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now On 9/5/23 16:52, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:

...

we were seeing a 5 to 7% block rate on our messages (look at blocks under the statistics section of the dashboard) with Microsoft-owned addresses being the main offenders. We had a feeling that the real number was actually higher based on feedback we received, but ultimately weren't really able to pin down the issue - E.G. was it a non-technical person not knowing they had received the message etc.

Jason White

11 May 11 May

4:44 p.m.

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues.

Andrew Hodgson

4:57 p.m.

Hi. I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month. If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues.

That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies. It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Billy Irwin

6:19 p.m.

Hi Andrew, I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back. Best, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi. I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month. If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues.

John G. Heim

12 May 12 May

2:53 p.m.

IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons: 1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find. 2. Would not depend on any one person. On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Andrew Hodgson

2:55 p.m.

Hi. The main barrier to that right now is moving the archives over. I did try contacting groups.io about this but got ignored. Maybe not having the archives wouldn't be such an issue? I agree with you though, if I move it somewhere else it will be an offering like groups.io. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 3:54 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons: 1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find. 2. Would not depend on any one person. On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Chris Nestrud

4:32 p.m.

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately. Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained. Chris On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...

IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Billy Irwin

5:17 p.m.

Hi All, Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me. Best, Billy -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately. Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained. Chris On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...

IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

John G. Heim

6:41 p.m.

No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on. Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you? No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you. On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Billy Irwin

7:37 p.m.

Hi John, I professionally work as a Sr. Network/Cyber Security Engineer for a local county in South Carolina. I am on Linked-in. I acquired a web hosting company that has been in business since 1998. It was formerly UltraHost.US after acquisition, I formed a new LLC and renamed the company to Bright Side Networks in 2019. I have several disaster recovery plans in place should something happen to me. We host over 200 web sites using a data center based in Dallas where I own a cluster of dedicated servers. I have invested quite a bit of money and time making the business grow. If there is more any of you would like to know that doesn't compromise my security, I will gladly answer any questions off list. I welcome those questions. Your concerns are valid and I completely understand them. Kind Regards, Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:42 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on. Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you? No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you. On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Andrew Hodgson

10:04 p.m.

Hi. In terms of the list archives I couldn't do a full export until recently because of a bug in Hyperkitty. If I move the list I don't want to keep the existing domain, its an old domain which doesn't make sense to be used for the list if its not hosted by me, though I can do a redirect of course. Right now I am more towards using groups.io because its hosting a lot of lists and has good search engine results. I put a lot of work into my IP reputation over the years but I lost it in a few days once my main list went elsewhere. I do have another list here as well which has even less traffic related to Plextalk products, I may try moving that first to groups.io to see how that goes, if it doesn't go well or we have issues I may take up Billy on his offer. Of course if there is a strong feeling either way I am happy to listen to that. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Billy Irwin Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 8:38 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi John, I professionally work as a Sr. Network/Cyber Security Engineer for a local county in South Carolina. I am on Linked-in. I acquired a web hosting company that has been in business since 1998. It was formerly UltraHost.US after acquisition, I formed a new LLC and renamed the company to Bright Side Networks in 2019. I have several disaster recovery plans in place should something happen to me. We host over 200 web sites using a data center based in Dallas where I own a cluster of dedicated servers. I have invested quite a bit of money and time making the business grow. If there is more any of you would like to know that doesn't compromise my security, I will gladly answer any questions off list. I welcome those questions. Your concerns are valid and I completely understand them. Kind Regards, Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:42 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on. Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you? No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you. On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

John G. Heim

13 May 13 May

4:16 p.m.

One thing worth considering here, IMO, is the possibility of creating a blind technologists community, rather than just an email list. A few of us tried to do that years ago with something called the International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. It just never caught on. But maybe we were trying to be too ambitious. We could register an appropriate domain name (I'd be willing to pay for that), set it up onBright Side Networks, and then just do the email list for now. If we ever want to do more, we would already have the basic set up. When we created that group years ago, there was no international group for blind computer professionals. That seems to be the case today. The closest thing is probably the collection of email lists run by the National Federation Of the Blind. I'm an American but even I'm a little leery of how all this stuff seems to be centered on the USA. How does somebody in Finland, Egypt, or even the UK feel about joining a list run by the NFB? I'm fine either way. Choosing to move to groups.io would guarantee that the list would continue. The other choice would be slightly less safe and perhaps a lot more work. But I think its a win-win either way. On 5/12/23 17:04, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Hi.

In terms of the list archives I couldn't do a full export until recently because of a bug in Hyperkitty. If I move the list I don't want to keep the existing domain, its an old domain which doesn't make sense to be used for the list if its not hosted by me, though I can do a redirect of course.

Right now I am more towards using groups.io because its hosting a lot of lists and has good search engine results. I put a lot of work into my IP reputation over the years but I lost it in a few days once my main list went elsewhere. I do have another list here as well which has even less traffic related to Plextalk products, I may try moving that first to groups.io to see how that goes, if it doesn't go well or we have issues I may take up Billy on his offer. Of course if there is a strong feeling either way I am happy to listen to that.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Billy Irwin Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 8:38 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi John,

I professionally work as a Sr. Network/Cyber Security Engineer for a local county in South Carolina. I am on Linked-in. I acquired a web hosting company that has been in business since 1998. It was formerly UltraHost.US after acquisition, I formed a new LLC and renamed the company to Bright Side Networks in 2019. I have several disaster recovery plans in place should something happen to me. We host over 200 web sites using a data center based in Dallas where I own a cluster of dedicated servers. I have invested quite a bit of money and time making the business grow. If there is more any of you would like to know that doesn't compromise my security, I will gladly answer any questions off list. I welcome those questions. Your concerns are valid and I completely understand them.

Kind Regards,

Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:42 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on.

Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you?

No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you.

On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Billy Irwin

4:26 p.m.

Hi John, I could either donate the domain or get you a deep discount as we sell domains. We use cPanel which makes backing up such a project a breeze and allows for us to have more than one admin. Hopefully this would prevent burn out and welcome those internationally to join in. The possibilities are endless for this project. Another note to add is that it is automatically backed up both the site and Mailman lists. So moving to another provider should my untimely demise occur. Best, Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2023 12:17 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Andrew Hodgson Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now One thing worth considering here, IMO, is the possibility of creating a blind technologists community, rather than just an email list. A few of us tried to do that years ago with something called the International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. It just never caught on. But maybe we were trying to be too ambitious. We could register an appropriate domain name (I'd be willing to pay for that), set it up onBright Side Networks, and then just do the email list for now. If we ever want to do more, we would already have the basic set up. When we created that group years ago, there was no international group for blind computer professionals. That seems to be the case today. The closest thing is probably the collection of email lists run by the National Federation Of the Blind. I'm an American but even I'm a little leery of how all this stuff seems to be centered on the USA. How does somebody in Finland, Egypt, or even the UK feel about joining a list run by the NFB? I'm fine either way. Choosing to move to groups.io would guarantee that the list would continue. The other choice would be slightly less safe and perhaps a lot more work. But I think its a win-win either way. On 5/12/23 17:04, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Hi.

In terms of the list archives I couldn't do a full export until recently because of a bug in Hyperkitty. If I move the list I don't want to keep the existing domain, its an old domain which doesn't make sense to be used for the list if its not hosted by me, though I can do a redirect of course.

Right now I am more towards using groups.io because its hosting a lot of lists and has good search engine results. I put a lot of work into my IP reputation over the years but I lost it in a few days once my main list went elsewhere. I do have another list here as well which has even less traffic related to Plextalk products, I may try moving that first to groups.io to see how that goes, if it doesn't go well or we have issues I may take up Billy on his offer. Of course if there is a strong feeling either way I am happy to listen to that.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Billy Irwin Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 8:38 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi John,

I professionally work as a Sr. Network/Cyber Security Engineer for a local county in South Carolina. I am on Linked-in. I acquired a web hosting company that has been in business since 1998. It was formerly UltraHost.US after acquisition, I formed a new LLC and renamed the company to Bright Side Networks in 2019. I have several disaster recovery plans in place should something happen to me. We host over 200 web sites using a data center based in Dallas where I own a cluster of dedicated servers. I have invested quite a bit of money and time making the business grow. If there is more any of you would like to know that doesn't compromise my security, I will gladly answer any questions off list. I welcome those questions. Your concerns are valid and I completely understand them.

Kind Regards,

Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:42 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on.

Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you?

No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you.

On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Andrew Hodgson

15 May 15 May

5:41 p.m.

Hi. After a bit of back and forth I think I've got my paid-for Office365 subscription working as a smart host now which will give us a bit of time to work out next steps. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Billy Irwin Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2023 5:26 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now Hi John, I could either donate the domain or get you a deep discount as we sell domains. We use cPanel which makes backing up such a project a breeze and allows for us to have more than one admin. Hopefully this would prevent burn out and welcome those internationally to join in. The possibilities are endless for this project. Another note to add is that it is automatically backed up both the site and Mailman lists. So moving to another provider should my untimely demise occur. Best, Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2023 12:17 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Andrew Hodgson Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now One thing worth considering here, IMO, is the possibility of creating a blind technologists community, rather than just an email list. A few of us tried to do that years ago with something called the International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. It just never caught on. But maybe we were trying to be too ambitious. We could register an appropriate domain name (I'd be willing to pay for that), set it up onBright Side Networks, and then just do the email list for now. If we ever want to do more, we would already have the basic set up. When we created that group years ago, there was no international group for blind computer professionals. That seems to be the case today. The closest thing is probably the collection of email lists run by the National Federation Of the Blind. I'm an American but even I'm a little leery of how all this stuff seems to be centered on the USA. How does somebody in Finland, Egypt, or even the UK feel about joining a list run by the NFB? I'm fine either way. Choosing to move to groups.io would guarantee that the list would continue. The other choice would be slightly less safe and perhaps a lot more work. But I think its a win-win either way. On 5/12/23 17:04, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...

Hi.

In terms of the list archives I couldn't do a full export until recently because of a bug in Hyperkitty. If I move the list I don't want to keep the existing domain, its an old domain which doesn't make sense to be used for the list if its not hosted by me, though I can do a redirect of course.

Right now I am more towards using groups.io because its hosting a lot of lists and has good search engine results. I put a lot of work into my IP reputation over the years but I lost it in a few days once my main list went elsewhere. I do have another list here as well which has even less traffic related to Plextalk products, I may try moving that first to groups.io to see how that goes, if it doesn't go well or we have issues I may take up Billy on his offer. Of course if there is a strong feeling either way I am happy to listen to that.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Billy Irwin Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 8:38 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi John,

I professionally work as a Sr. Network/Cyber Security Engineer for a local county in South Carolina. I am on Linked-in. I acquired a web hosting company that has been in business since 1998. It was formerly UltraHost.US after acquisition, I formed a new LLC and renamed the company to Bright Side Networks in 2019. I have several disaster recovery plans in place should something happen to me. We host over 200 web sites using a data center based in Dallas where I own a cluster of dedicated servers. I have invested quite a bit of money and time making the business grow. If there is more any of you would like to know that doesn't compromise my security, I will gladly answer any questions off list. I welcome those questions. Your concerns are valid and I completely understand them.

Kind Regards,

Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:42 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on.

Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you?

No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you.

On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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John G. Heim

13 May 13 May

3:56 p.m.

Okay, I'm convinced. From what you say below, plus the fact that "Bright Side Networks" is googleable, I'm satisfied. In another message, Andrew says he leans toward groups.io and I think I would agree with that. But we really have little reason to think groups.io is that much more stable than Bright Side Networks. On 5/12/23 14:37, Billy Irwin wrote:

...

Hi John,

I professionally work as a Sr. Network/Cyber Security Engineer for a local county in South Carolina. I am on Linked-in. I acquired a web hosting company that has been in business since 1998. It was formerly UltraHost.US after acquisition, I formed a new LLC and renamed the company to Bright Side Networks in 2019. I have several disaster recovery plans in place should something happen to me. We host over 200 web sites using a data center based in Dallas where I own a cluster of dedicated servers. I have invested quite a bit of money and time making the business grow. If there is more any of you would like to know that doesn't compromise my security, I will gladly answer any questions off list. I welcome those questions. Your concerns are valid and I completely understand them.

Kind Regards,

Billy -----Original Message----- From: John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 2:42 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators ; Billy Irwin Cc: John G. Heim Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

No business can respond to every request for info. But groups.io is way more responsive than most. They have a developers forumn that the owner and lead developer is on.

Billy, is this a business you are running? What happens to the list if something happens to you?

No offense, Billy, but we don't know a darn thing about you.

On 5/12/23 12:17, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi All,

Thanks Chris for the support. I believe I could assist with the migration of the archives or if nothing else we could put them as part of a web site that I too can host. The cool thing too is that the list will have its own IP with good reputation as a part of our subnet that we have. With the filtering I have put in place and the intense work I have put into meeting the requirements of those like Yahoo, we have achieved a 99% delivery rating. It really stinks that Groups.IO isn't responsive to the needs. I think having an online community that we all could contribute too is worth a thought. For those who might not dig through archives that are blind and who want to begin a career in I.T. it would be awesome to have a resource to point them too. I am eager to give back since this group has been a great resource for me.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 12:31 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

John G. Heim

12 May 12 May

6:34 p.m.

Oh man, I could not disagree more. The group would be much safer on a platform like groups.io or freelist.org than in the hands of any individual. On 5/12/23 11:31, Chris Nestrud wrote:

...

IMO, nothing beats a good provider with a vested interest in the continuation of the list, so I'd think Billy Irwin's suggestion is worth strong consideration. I do think the archives are worth keeping, and the domain is either worth keeping for this purpose or using temporarily to redirect search engines appropriately.

Between the other two mentioned options I'd recommend groups.io. The program-l list is hosted on freelists.org and it has some strange oddities with messages occasionally. I suspect groups.io is better maintained.

Chris

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 02:53:38PM +0000, John G. Heim via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

...
IMO, this list should be moved to a provider like groups.io or freelist.org. Two reasons:

1. Makes it easier for blind sys admins to find.

2. Would not depend on any one person.

On 5/11/23 13:19, Billy Irwin wrote:

...
Hi Andrew,

I host several hundred mailman lists and have the reputation established to handle it. I am more than willing to create an account and give you something like lists.domain to run however you wish. You have done a great job hosting this list and I am certainly willing to help give back.

Best,

Billy

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:58 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

Hi.

I've been playing with other systems today and they all rewrite the Message-ID header which make them unusable with the lists. I think I'm going to set up a cheap relay on another cloud provider as for the £20 per month I am paying for Sendgrid its more than the VPS itself and I can pay less for professional list hosting per month.

If it weren't for the list I think Sendgrid is the best option for individuals or if your app is sending out the occasional message for example my Mastodon instance sends out a couple per day.

Andrew.

-----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:44 PM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Using Sendgrid as outbound mailer from now

On 10/5/23 18:49, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

...
Unfortunately a lot of the issues with deliverability comes from how many emails your IP have successfully sent in the past x number of hours. When I ran larger email lists I had absolutely no issues in delivering to the top providers. Its only since the lists moved to a new home I had deliverability issues. That's insightful, thank you. I suppose their argument would be that a substantial volume of messages is needed to collect strong evidence of a server's maintaining appropriate sending policies.

It may be worth noting that Microsoft 365 is now sending DMARC aggregate reports regularly; other large providers were already doing so.

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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participants (8)

Andrew Hodgson
Andrew Hodgson
Ben Mustill-Rose
Billy Irwin
Chris Nestrud
Jason White
John G. Heim
Steve Nutt