Linux/Windows virtualization with screen readers and a braille display involved
I'm contemplating the purchase of a new laptop, having reached the conclusion that I'll probably need to run Linux and Windows alongside each other. The right way to do this (minimizing reboots) is to virtualize one of them. I can use screen readers in both environments, and also have a braille display that would need to be switched between the two. There are plenty of opportunities for problems and inconveniences here. Is there a virtualization environment that reliably works in this scenario? I've used KVM under Linux before, but only with a Linux guest OS. I know Microsoft have their own virtualization solution that could be used with Windows as the host system and Linux as the guest. Linux is the system with which I've had most experience. I've been using a Windows 10 machine at work, and there are some applications only available there that I know I'll need to some extent (principally, OCR tools and Microsoft Office, at least until LibreOffice accessibility under Linux improves sufficiently). There are also some teleconferencing applications such as WebEx that I may need. I'll probably also need Linux software that isn't compatible with the Linux Subsystem for Windows, which is why I'm preparing for the likely need to virtualize one of the operating systems. I'm just investigating my options at this stage. Relevant information would be welcome.
I don't use Braille but I'd suggest downloading VM Ware player for windows. Create your Lynnox VM of choice. And see how the Braille runs there. You can attach peripherals to the guest or the host from within VM Ware player. At least, I think you can. I actually use VMware workstation. Cheers Chris Turner Sent from mobile.
On 23 May 2017, at 23:15, Jason White via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> wrote:
I'm contemplating the purchase of a new laptop, having reached the conclusion that I'll probably need to run Linux and Windows alongside each other. The right way to do this (minimizing reboots) is to virtualize one of them. I can use screen readers in both environments, and also have a braille display that would need to be switched between the two. There are plenty of opportunities for problems and inconveniences here.
Is there a virtualization environment that reliably works in this scenario? I've used KVM under Linux before, but only with a Linux guest OS. I know Microsoft have their own virtualization solution that could be used with Windows as the host system and Linux as the guest.
Linux is the system with which I've had most experience. I've been using a Windows 10 machine at work, and there are some applications only available there that I know I'll need to some extent (principally, OCR tools and Microsoft Office, at least until LibreOffice accessibility under Linux improves sufficiently). There are also some teleconferencing applications such as WebEx that I may need. I'll probably also need Linux software that isn't compatible with the Linux Subsystem for Windows, which is why I'm preparing for the likely need to virtualize one of the operating systems.
I'm just investigating my options at this stage. Relevant information would be welcome.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Also, VM Fusion on the Mac is very good for doing exactly what you want to do. I use Fusion for work daily. The suggestion for the VM Player under windows is also a big +1 from this side.
On May 24, 2017, at 8:16 AM, Chris T via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> wrote:
I don't use Braille but I'd suggest downloading VM Ware player for windows. Create your Lynnox VM of choice. And see how the Braille runs there. You can attach peripherals to the guest or the host from within VM Ware player. At least, I think you can. I actually use VMware workstation.
Cheers Chris Turner Sent from mobile.
On 23 May 2017, at 23:15, Jason White via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> wrote:
I'm contemplating the purchase of a new laptop, having reached the conclusion that I'll probably need to run Linux and Windows alongside each other. The right way to do this (minimizing reboots) is to virtualize one of them. I can use screen readers in both environments, and also have a braille display that would need to be switched between the two. There are plenty of opportunities for problems and inconveniences here.
Is there a virtualization environment that reliably works in this scenario? I've used KVM under Linux before, but only with a Linux guest OS. I know Microsoft have their own virtualization solution that could be used with Windows as the host system and Linux as the guest.
Linux is the system with which I've had most experience. I've been using a Windows 10 machine at work, and there are some applications only available there that I know I'll need to some extent (principally, OCR tools and Microsoft Office, at least until LibreOffice accessibility under Linux improves sufficiently). There are also some teleconferencing applications such as WebEx that I may need. I'll probably also need Linux software that isn't compatible with the Linux Subsystem for Windows, which is why I'm preparing for the likely need to virtualize one of the operating systems.
I'm just investigating my options at this stage. Relevant information would be welcome.
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Scott Granados <scott@granados-llc.net> wrote:
Also, VM Fusion on the Mac is very good for doing exactly what you want to do. I use Fusion for work daily. The suggestion for the VM Player under windows is also a big +1 from this side.
Thanks - I have a Mac, too, but I doubt that it has enough RAM to run everything comfortably. The next laptop will have either 16GB or 32GB, and of course an SSD for storage. Apparently, Samba can be used to share files between the two operating systems. I already have it configured on my very old Linux laptop which, though still working well, runs very slowly if the graphical desktop is loaded, and can't be used to compile large programs, for example the specialized version of Chromium that allows the latest ChromeVox to be run on a Linux machine. These are all reasons why I have to think about a hardware upgrade, not just software changes.
I use VirtualBox for linux and Windows as the guest OS. I've been very impressed with VirtualBox. They have a really nice command line interface that as far as I can tell allows you to do pretty much everything. I understand there is a tool called vagrant that allows you to configure VirtualBox virtual machines. I haven't had time to investigate that yet. I have a bash script that allows me to create a vmwith the Win7 installer iso in a virtual DVD drive and a diskette image with an installer answer file in a virtual diskette drive. So when I boot the vm, it automatically does a custom Win7 install. So I don't necessarily even keep the Win7 vm around because I can recreate it so easily. You can probably do this in vmware too but another cool thing I do is to use a script that does a screen capture of the virtual machine and feeds it directly to an OCR program, tesseract. The text is usually pretty jumbled but it is usually good enough for me to figure out if there is something wrong. I've had my braille display connected to a virtual machine but I think it was a lot of work. You have to get the UUID of the USB device before connecting it to a vm. And the UUID is different every time you boot the vm unless you do something fancy -- exactly what that something is escapes me right now. Normally what you have to do is run a virtualbox command to list the UUID of the device and then cut/paste the UUID into another virtualbox command to connect it to the vm. There is some way to avoid that but right now I don't recall what it is. On 05/23/2017 05:15 PM, Jason White via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
I'm contemplating the purchase of a new laptop, having reached the conclusion that I'll probably need to run Linux and Windows alongside each other. The right way to do this (minimizing reboots) is to virtualize one of them. I can use screen readers in both environments, and also have a braille display that would need to be switched between the two. There are plenty of opportunities for problems and inconveniences here.
Is there a virtualization environment that reliably works in this scenario? I've used KVM under Linux before, but only with a Linux guest OS. I know Microsoft have their own virtualization solution that could be used with Windows as the host system and Linux as the guest.
Linux is the system with which I've had most experience. I've been using a Windows 10 machine at work, and there are some applications only available there that I know I'll need to some extent (principally, OCR tools and Microsoft Office, at least until LibreOffice accessibility under Linux improves sufficiently). There are also some teleconferencing applications such as WebEx that I may need. I'll probably also need Linux software that isn't compatible with the Linux Subsystem for Windows, which is why I'm preparing for the likely need to virtualize one of the operating systems.
I'm just investigating my options at this stage. Relevant information would be welcome.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
I've had my braille display connected to a virtual machine but I think it was a lot of work. You have to get the UUID of the USB device before connecting it to a vm. And the UUID is different every time you boot the vm unless you do something fancy -- exactly what that something is escapes me right now. Normally what you have to do is run a virtualbox command to list the UUID of the device and then cut/paste the UUID into another virtualbox command to connect it to the vm.
Thanks for the summary. I can, of course, do what you describe above, but as you are also suggesting, this is exactly the kind of configuring that shouldn't be necessary. Once only would be fine, but having to do it repeatedly wouldn't be. I appreciate that moving a braille device between host and guest operating systems may not be trivial, perhaps requiring it to be reset depending on its state and the nature of the communication protocol.
Jason, Do you require a pure Linux environment or could you get away with the windows 10 creators developer Linux environment?Jaws or NVDA will work with this environment and so will your braille display. Just an idea. Otherwise you will have to use VMWare. Depending on your model of Braille Display. You might be able to connect by USB and Bluetooth to both OS's at the same time. This is what I do when I want to connect to my Mac and Windows using a FS Focus Blue 40 or 80. Windows is usb and Mac is Bluetooth. Sean -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Jason White via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Thursday, 25 May 2017 9:08 AM To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Cc: Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Linux/Windows virtualization with screen readers and a braille display involved John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
I've had my braille display connected to a virtual machine but I think it was a lot of work. You have to get the UUID of the USB device before connecting it to a vm. And the UUID is different every time you boot the vm unless you do something fancy -- exactly what that something is escapes me right now. Normally what you have to do is run a virtualbox command to list the UUID of the device and then cut/paste the UUID into another virtualbox command to connect it to the vm.
Thanks for the summary. I can, of course, do what you describe above, but as you are also suggesting, this is exactly the kind of configuring that shouldn't be necessary. Once only would be fine, but having to do it repeatedly wouldn't be. I appreciate that moving a braille device between host and guest operating systems may not be trivial, perhaps requiring it to be reset depending on its state and the nature of the communication protocol. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Sean Murphy <mhysnm1964@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you require a pure Linux environment or could you get away with the windows 10 creators developer Linux environment?Jaws or NVDA will work with this environment and so will your braille display. Just an idea. Otherwise you will have to use VMWare.
I think it's an open question at the moment. Microsoft have implemented (as I understand it) some of the Linux system calls, but not everything. As soon as I need something which lies outside the scope of what they've implemented, I'll need a virtual machine. One option, of course, is to go ahead with the hardware purchase and then experiment on the software side.
Hello, I use a Linux VM for development all the time. I run it in VMWare Workstation and just use VMWare's GUI to connect the braille display. For completeness, Windows is the host operating system. I played around to get BRLTTY running on the Windows side, connect NVDA to BRLTTY and connect BRLTTY in the VM to BRLTTY on the host for easier switching, but couldn't get that to work as of yet. VirtualBOX's GUI on WIndows is also quite accessible and you should be able to get the same setup going in Virtualbox. Don't try Hyper-V, it's not suited for this use case. To connect HID braille displays in VMWare you might need to set an option to show all HID devices, which is off by default. Also, if you have a braille display that uses a USB-serial converter inside, directly connecting the serial port to the VM is also an option. If you prefer Linux as a host, there is another option I didn't try. KVM has an option to connect a braille device to the VM. That emulates a Baum braille display and communicates with BRLTTY on the host system. That should give you seamless access to the braille display in the VM, in theory. Hope this helps, Bram On 25-5-2017 14:24, 'Jason White' via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
Sean Murphy <mhysnm1964@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you require a pure Linux environment or could you get away with the windows 10 creators developer Linux environment?Jaws or NVDA will work with this environment and so will your braille display. Just an idea. Otherwise you will have to use VMWare.
I think it's an open question at the moment. Microsoft have implemented (as I understand it) some of the Linux system calls, but not everything. As soon as I need something which lies outside the scope of what they've implemented, I'll need a virtual machine.
One option, of course, is to go ahead with the hardware purchase and then experiment on the software side.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I would think that a braille display would connect like any other USB device. Sent from Nine<http://www.9folders.com/> ________________________________ From: Bram Duvigneau <bram@bramd.nl> Sent: May 28, 2017 10:28 To: Blind sysadmins list; Sean Murphy Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Linux/Windows virtualization with screen readers and a braille display involved Hello, I use a Linux VM for development all the time. I run it in VMWare Workstation and just use VMWare's GUI to connect the braille display. For completeness, Windows is the host operating system. I played around to get BRLTTY running on the Windows side, connect NVDA to BRLTTY and connect BRLTTY in the VM to BRLTTY on the host for easier switching, but couldn't get that to work as of yet. VirtualBOX's GUI on WIndows is also quite accessible and you should be able to get the same setup going in Virtualbox. Don't try Hyper-V, it's not suited for this use case. To connect HID braille displays in VMWare you might need to set an option to show all HID devices, which is off by default. Also, if you have a braille display that uses a USB-serial converter inside, directly connecting the serial port to the VM is also an option. If you prefer Linux as a host, there is another option I didn't try. KVM has an option to connect a braille device to the VM. That emulates a Baum braille display and communicates with BRLTTY on the host system. That should give you seamless access to the braille display in the VM, in theory. Hope this helps, Bram On 25-5-2017 14:24, 'Jason White' via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
Sean Murphy <mhysnm1964@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you require a pure Linux environment or could you get away with the windows 10 creators developer Linux environment?Jaws or NVDA will work with this environment and so will your braille display. Just an idea. Otherwise you will have to use VMWare.
I think it's an open question at the moment. Microsoft have implemented (as I understand it) some of the Linux system calls, but not everything. As soon as I need something which lies outside the scope of what they've implemented, I'll need a virtual machine.
One option, of course, is to go ahead with the hardware purchase and then experiment on the software side.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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Hi Jason, I used VirtualBox and VMWare Player successfully. Greetings, Simon Am 24.05.2017 um 00:15 schrieb Jason White via Blind-sysadmins:
I'm contemplating the purchase of a new laptop, having reached the conclusion that I'll probably need to run Linux and Windows alongside each other. The right way to do this (minimizing reboots) is to virtualize one of them. I can use screen readers in both environments, and also have a braille display that would need to be switched between the two. There are plenty of opportunities for problems and inconveniences here.
Is there a virtualization environment that reliably works in this scenario? I've used KVM under Linux before, but only with a Linux guest OS. I know Microsoft have their own virtualization solution that could be used with Windows as the host system and Linux as the guest.
Linux is the system with which I've had most experience. I've been using a Windows 10 machine at work, and there are some applications only available there that I know I'll need to some extent (principally, OCR tools and Microsoft Office, at least until LibreOffice accessibility under Linux improves sufficiently). There are also some teleconferencing applications such as WebEx that I may need. I'll probably also need Linux software that isn't compatible with the Linux Subsystem for Windows, which is why I'm preparing for the likely need to virtualize one of the operating systems.
I'm just investigating my options at this stage. Relevant information would be welcome.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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I used VirtualBox on Windows and Linux, VMWare Player on windows. Greetings, Simon Am 26.05.2017 um 01:00 schrieb Jason White via Blind-sysadmins:
Simon Eigeldinger <simon.eigeldinger@vol.at> wrote:
I used VirtualBox and VMWare Player successfully.
Which system did you use as the host?
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participants (9)
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'Jason White' -
Bram Duvigneau -
Chris T -
Jason White
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John G Heim -
Katherine M. Moss -
Scott Granados -
Sean Murphy -
Simon Eigeldinger