Hello, Looking through the archives, I notice that Caroline Ford asked a similar question three years. The PowerShell Ise application seems to have seriously considered accessibility. The text in the console is readable but a number of keyboard acrobatics must be used before this is possible. Has anyone a better way of accessing this? I'm writing something a little more complicated and having the ability to select set parts of the code and run this would be a great advantage. Currently, I'm going into the touch cursor, going into the text reading layer with numpad slash then reading the output. This works but it means that I cant route the mouse to specific text to copy it. I know I can copy from the virtual buffer of course but it's nice to be able to show people looking over my shoulder during training etc what's happening. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Performing, Promoting and Sharing traditional Irish music Performance: www.darraghpipes.ie<http://www.darraghpipes.ie> Music at the Gate: www.musicatthegate.ie<http://www.musicatthegate.ie> Ceol FM: www.ceol.fm<http://www.ceol.fm> Tel: 00353(0)877670464 Email: darragh@ceol.fm
It looks like Microsoft is be recommending Visual Studio Code in favor of PowerShell ISE for development. From Using Visual Studio Code for PowerShell Development - PowerShell | Microsoft Docs at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/dev-cross-plat/vscode/... Visual Studio Code is a cross-platform script editor by Microsoft. Together with the PowerShell extension, it provides a rich and interactive script editing experience, making it easier to write reliable PowerShell scripts. Visual Studio Code with the PowerShell extension is the recommended editor for writing PowerShell scripts. [...] The Windows PowerShell ISE is still available for Windows. However, it is no longer in active feature development. The ISE does not work with PowerShell 6 and higher. As a component of Windows, it continues to be officially supported for security and high-priority servicing fixes. We have no plans to remove the ISE from Windows. There has been a lot of work on Visual Studio Code in terms of accessibility. Chris On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 08:21:23AM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Hello,
Looking through the archives, I notice that Caroline Ford asked a similar question three years.
The PowerShell Ise application seems to have seriously considered accessibility. The text in the console is readable but a number of keyboard acrobatics must be used before this is possible.
Has anyone a better way of accessing this?
I'm writing something a little more complicated and having the ability to select set parts of the code and run this would be a great advantage.
Currently, I'm going into the touch cursor, going into the text reading layer with numpad slash then reading the output. This works but it means that I cant route the mouse to specific text to copy it. I know I can copy from the virtual buffer of course but it's nice to be able to show people looking over my shoulder during training etc what's happening.
Regards
Darragh ? H?iligh Performing, Promoting and Sharing traditional Irish music Performance: www.darraghpipes.ie<http://www.darraghpipes.ie> Music at the Gate: www.musicatthegate.ie<http://www.musicatthegate.ie> Ceol FM: www.ceol.fm<http://www.ceol.fm>
Tel: 00353(0)877670464 Email: darragh@ceol.fm
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Thanks Chris, Visual studio code is not usable. I have really tried. But it's really not reliable enough. For example, let's say you are writing a line and you need to go back up and see what you called a function. You write the first part of the function but you need to go back and verify what it is actually called. Visual studio code with Jaws and / or NVDA will not read the code. Instead it continually calls out the title of the window. This happens in Visual studio 2019 sometimes but not nearly as frequently. Also, the built in terminal is absolutely not accessible. So really, I may as well just use Notepad++ or something like that because I get no advantages from VSCode. Oh also, sometimes with vSCode, the virtual PC cursor is re-enabled for a moment. That's really irritating. I've contacted the developers of PowerShell studio. That application looks quite good. There are a few very important areas. Such as the Editor. That need work to be accessible. But if that works, it could be really useful. PowerShell is a vital part of our toolkit. It's not really practical to write in Notepad++ because although this auto-completes previously used names and commands, it has no auto complete for commands that haven't been used in the script before. Regards Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> Sent: Saturday 13 June 2020 10:17 p.m. To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: PowerShell Ise. It looks like Microsoft is be recommending Visual Studio Code in favor of PowerShell ISE for development. From Using Visual Studio Code for PowerShell Development - PowerShell | Microsoft Docs at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/dev-cross-plat/vscode/... Visual Studio Code is a cross-platform script editor by Microsoft. Together with the PowerShell extension, it provides a rich and interactive script editing experience, making it easier to write reliable PowerShell scripts. Visual Studio Code with the PowerShell extension is the recommended editor for writing PowerShell scripts. [...] The Windows PowerShell ISE is still available for Windows. However, it is no longer in active feature development. The ISE does not work with PowerShell 6 and higher. As a component of Windows, it continues to be officially supported for security and high-priority servicing fixes. We have no plans to remove the ISE from Windows. There has been a lot of work on Visual Studio Code in terms of accessibility. Chris On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 08:21:23AM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Hello,
Looking through the archives, I notice that Caroline Ford asked a similar question three years.
The PowerShell Ise application seems to have seriously considered accessibility. The text in the console is readable but a number of keyboard acrobatics must be used before this is possible.
Has anyone a better way of accessing this?
I'm writing something a little more complicated and having the ability to select set parts of the code and run this would be a great advantage.
Currently, I'm going into the touch cursor, going into the text reading layer with numpad slash then reading the output. This works but it means that I cant route the mouse to specific text to copy it. I know I can copy from the virtual buffer of course but it's nice to be able to show people looking over my shoulder during training etc what's happening.
Regards
Darragh ? H?iligh Performing, Promoting and Sharing traditional Irish music Performance: www.darraghpipes.ie<http://www.darraghpipes.ie> Music at the Gate: www.musicatthegate.ie<http://www.musicatthegate.ie> Ceol FM: www.ceol.fm<http://www.ceol.fm>
Tel: 00353(0)877670464 Email: darragh@ceol.fm
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
I tried to replicate this using the insiders build of VS Code and was unable to do so, but this is probably due to my inexperience with both PowerShell and Visual Studio Code. It might be worth filing this as an issue on https://github.com/microsoft/vscode and mention @isidorn who is heading up Visual Studio Code accessibility efforts. As far as terminal, ctrl+up and ctrl+down are supposed to read lines of output. I've been able to get the full text by: ctrl+up, applications key, select all, ctrl+c to copy to clipboard, ctrl+n for a new file, ctrl+v to paste. Chris On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 09:22:16PM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Thanks Chris,
Visual studio code is not usable. I have really tried. But it's really not reliable enough.
For example, let's say you are writing a line and you need to go back up and see what you called a function. You write the first part of the function but you need to go back and verify what it is actually called. Visual studio code with Jaws and / or NVDA will not read the code. Instead it continually calls out the title of the window. This happens in Visual studio 2019 sometimes but not nearly as frequently.
Also, the built in terminal is absolutely not accessible. So really, I may as well just use Notepad++ or something like that because I get no advantages from VSCode.
Oh also, sometimes with vSCode, the virtual PC cursor is re-enabled for a moment. That's really irritating.
I've contacted the developers of PowerShell studio. That application looks quite good. There are a few very important areas. Such as the Editor. That need work to be accessible. But if that works, it could be really useful.
PowerShell is a vital part of our toolkit. It's not really practical to write in Notepad++ because although this auto-completes previously used names and commands, it has no auto complete for commands that haven't been used in the script before.
Regards
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> Sent: Saturday 13 June 2020 10:17 p.m. To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: PowerShell Ise.
It looks like Microsoft is be recommending Visual Studio Code in favor of PowerShell ISE for development.
From Using Visual Studio Code for PowerShell Development - PowerShell | Microsoft Docs at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/dev-cross-plat/vscode/...
Visual Studio Code is a cross-platform script editor by Microsoft. Together with the PowerShell extension, it provides a rich and interactive script editing experience, making it easier to write reliable PowerShell scripts. Visual Studio Code with the PowerShell extension is the recommended editor for writing PowerShell scripts.
[...]
The Windows PowerShell ISE is still available for Windows. However, it is no longer in active feature development. The ISE does not work with PowerShell 6 and higher. As a component of Windows, it continues to be officially supported for security and high-priority servicing fixes. We have no plans to remove the ISE from Windows.
There has been a lot of work on Visual Studio Code in terms of accessibility.
Chris
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 08:21:23AM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Hello,
Looking through the archives, I notice that Caroline Ford asked a similar question three years.
The PowerShell Ise application seems to have seriously considered accessibility. The text in the console is readable but a number of keyboard acrobatics must be used before this is possible.
Has anyone a better way of accessing this?
I'm writing something a little more complicated and having the ability to select set parts of the code and run this would be a great advantage.
Currently, I'm going into the touch cursor, going into the text reading layer with numpad slash then reading the output. This works but it means that I cant route the mouse to specific text to copy it. I know I can copy from the virtual buffer of course but it's nice to be able to show people looking over my shoulder during training etc what's happening.
Regards
Darragh ? H?iligh Performing, Promoting and Sharing traditional Irish music Performance: www.darraghpipes.ie<http://www.darraghpipes.ie> Music at the Gate: www.musicatthegate.ie<http://www.musicatthegate.ie> Ceol FM: www.ceol.fm<http://www.ceol.fm>
Tel: 00353(0)877670464 Email: darragh@ceol.fm
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Thanks Chris, I'll try the insider build. Your method of selecting text should be seen as a terrible reflection on the state of accessibility in that terminal. If you can't use the Jaws cursor, the terminal is unusable. It is a core requirement when using a terminal in Windows that the user can select some text. If the terminal and / or the screen reader can't support this, they have a responsibility to fix it in my firm belief. A terminal is a fundamental tool for a system administrator. We need to ensure that it remains accessible. @Ryan Shugart you asked for suggestions on terminal accessibility some time ago. Did you get any feedback from that team afterword? Thanks Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> Sent: Sunday 14 June 2020 11:14 p.m. To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: PowerShell Ise. I tried to replicate this using the insiders build of VS Code and was unable to do so, but this is probably due to my inexperience with both PowerShell and Visual Studio Code. It might be worth filing this as an issue on https://github.com/microsoft/vscode and mention @isidorn who is heading up Visual Studio Code accessibility efforts. As far as terminal, ctrl+up and ctrl+down are supposed to read lines of output. I've been able to get the full text by: ctrl+up, applications key, select all, ctrl+c to copy to clipboard, ctrl+n for a new file, ctrl+v to paste. Chris On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 09:22:16PM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Thanks Chris,
Visual studio code is not usable. I have really tried. But it's really not reliable enough.
For example, let's say you are writing a line and you need to go back up and see what you called a function. You write the first part of the function but you need to go back and verify what it is actually called. Visual studio code with Jaws and / or NVDA will not read the code. Instead it continually calls out the title of the window. This happens in Visual studio 2019 sometimes but not nearly as frequently.
Also, the built in terminal is absolutely not accessible. So really, I may as well just use Notepad++ or something like that because I get no advantages from VSCode.
Oh also, sometimes with vSCode, the virtual PC cursor is re-enabled for a moment. That's really irritating.
I've contacted the developers of PowerShell studio. That application looks quite good. There are a few very important areas. Such as the Editor. That need work to be accessible. But if that works, it could be really useful.
PowerShell is a vital part of our toolkit. It's not really practical to write in Notepad++ because although this auto-completes previously used names and commands, it has no auto complete for commands that haven't been used in the script before.
Regards
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> Sent: Saturday 13 June 2020 10:17 p.m. To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: PowerShell Ise.
It looks like Microsoft is be recommending Visual Studio Code in favor of PowerShell ISE for development.
From Using Visual Studio Code for PowerShell Development - PowerShell | Microsoft Docs at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/dev-cross-plat/v scode/using-vscode?view=powershell-7
Visual Studio Code is a cross-platform script editor by Microsoft. Together with the PowerShell extension, it provides a rich and interactive script editing experience, making it easier to write reliable PowerShell scripts. Visual Studio Code with the PowerShell extension is the recommended editor for writing PowerShell scripts.
[...]
The Windows PowerShell ISE is still available for Windows. However, it is no longer in active feature development. The ISE does not work with PowerShell 6 and higher. As a component of Windows, it continues to be officially supported for security and high-priority servicing fixes. We have no plans to remove the ISE from Windows.
There has been a lot of work on Visual Studio Code in terms of accessibility.
Chris
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 08:21:23AM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Hello,
Looking through the archives, I notice that Caroline Ford asked a similar question three years.
The PowerShell Ise application seems to have seriously considered accessibility. The text in the console is readable but a number of keyboard acrobatics must be used before this is possible.
Has anyone a better way of accessing this?
I'm writing something a little more complicated and having the ability to select set parts of the code and run this would be a great advantage.
Currently, I'm going into the touch cursor, going into the text reading layer with numpad slash then reading the output. This works but it means that I cant route the mouse to specific text to copy it. I know I can copy from the virtual buffer of course but it's nice to be able to show people looking over my shoulder during training etc what's happening.
Regards
Darragh ? H?iligh Performing, Promoting and Sharing traditional Irish music Performance: www.darraghpipes.ie<http://www.darraghpipes.ie> Music at the Gate: www.musicatthegate.ie<http://www.musicatthegate.ie> Ceol FM: www.ceol.fm<http://www.ceol.fm>
Tel: 00353(0)877670464 Email: darragh@ceol.fm
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Oh I completely agree with you. I am not saying that this is an acceptable solution as far as usability and productivity is concerned. Chris On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 09:14:09AM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Thanks Chris, I'll try the insider build.
Your method of selecting text should be seen as a terrible reflection on the state of accessibility in that terminal. If you can't use the Jaws cursor, the terminal is unusable. It is a core requirement when using a terminal in Windows that the user can select some text. If the terminal and / or the screen reader can't support this, they have a responsibility to fix it in my firm belief. A terminal is a fundamental tool for a system administrator. We need to ensure that it remains accessible.
@Ryan Shugart you asked for suggestions on terminal accessibility some time ago. Did you get any feedback from that team afterword?
Thanks
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> Sent: Sunday 14 June 2020 11:14 p.m. To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: PowerShell Ise.
I tried to replicate this using the insiders build of VS Code and was unable to do so, but this is probably due to my inexperience with both PowerShell and Visual Studio Code. It might be worth filing this as an issue on
https://github.com/microsoft/vscode
and mention @isidorn who is heading up Visual Studio Code accessibility efforts.
As far as terminal, ctrl+up and ctrl+down are supposed to read lines of output. I've been able to get the full text by: ctrl+up, applications key, select all, ctrl+c to copy to clipboard, ctrl+n for a new file, ctrl+v to paste.
Chris
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 09:22:16PM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Thanks Chris,
Visual studio code is not usable. I have really tried. But it's really not reliable enough.
For example, let's say you are writing a line and you need to go back up and see what you called a function. You write the first part of the function but you need to go back and verify what it is actually called. Visual studio code with Jaws and / or NVDA will not read the code. Instead it continually calls out the title of the window. This happens in Visual studio 2019 sometimes but not nearly as frequently.
Also, the built in terminal is absolutely not accessible. So really, I may as well just use Notepad++ or something like that because I get no advantages from VSCode.
Oh also, sometimes with vSCode, the virtual PC cursor is re-enabled for a moment. That's really irritating.
I've contacted the developers of PowerShell studio. That application looks quite good. There are a few very important areas. Such as the Editor. That need work to be accessible. But if that works, it could be really useful.
PowerShell is a vital part of our toolkit. It's not really practical to write in Notepad++ because although this auto-completes previously used names and commands, it has no auto complete for commands that haven't been used in the script before.
Regards
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nestrud <ccn@chrisnestrud.com> Sent: Saturday 13 June 2020 10:17 p.m. To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: PowerShell Ise.
It looks like Microsoft is be recommending Visual Studio Code in favor of PowerShell ISE for development.
From Using Visual Studio Code for PowerShell Development - PowerShell | Microsoft Docs at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/dev-cross-plat/v scode/using-vscode?view=powershell-7
Visual Studio Code is a cross-platform script editor by Microsoft. Together with the PowerShell extension, it provides a rich and interactive script editing experience, making it easier to write reliable PowerShell scripts. Visual Studio Code with the PowerShell extension is the recommended editor for writing PowerShell scripts.
[...]
The Windows PowerShell ISE is still available for Windows. However, it is no longer in active feature development. The ISE does not work with PowerShell 6 and higher. As a component of Windows, it continues to be officially supported for security and high-priority servicing fixes. We have no plans to remove the ISE from Windows.
There has been a lot of work on Visual Studio Code in terms of accessibility.
Chris
On Mon, Jun 08, 2020 at 08:21:23AM +0000, Darragh ? H?iligh wrote:
Hello,
Looking through the archives, I notice that Caroline Ford asked a similar question three years.
The PowerShell Ise application seems to have seriously considered accessibility. The text in the console is readable but a number of keyboard acrobatics must be used before this is possible.
Has anyone a better way of accessing this?
I'm writing something a little more complicated and having the ability to select set parts of the code and run this would be a great advantage.
Currently, I'm going into the touch cursor, going into the text reading layer with numpad slash then reading the output. This works but it means that I cant route the mouse to specific text to copy it. I know I can copy from the virtual buffer of course but it's nice to be able to show people looking over my shoulder during training etc what's happening.
Regards
Darragh ? H?iligh Performing, Promoting and Sharing traditional Irish music Performance: www.darraghpipes.ie<http://www.darraghpipes.ie> Music at the Gate: www.musicatthegate.ie<http://www.musicatthegate.ie> Ceol FM: www.ceol.fm<http://www.ceol.fm>
Tel: 00353(0)877670464 Email: darragh@ceol.fm
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
participants (2)
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Chris Nestrud -
Darragh Ó Héiligh