Hi there: I know we have a few Mac users on this list so thought I’d reach out. If you are a Mac user and have access to Outlook for Mac, I’d really appreciate it if you could try out Outlook for Mac with VoiceOver and give any feedback you have, particularly on how the message list works. There are currently two versions of Outlook for Mac, the classic version and the new version. In the outlook menu in the menu bar, there is a menu item called just “outlook.” This is a checkable menu item and if you check it you’ll get the new Outlook for Mac, if its unchecked you’ll get the classic version. Right now you can switch between the two of them with no issues, so I’d incourage you to compare the message list between the two and let me know what you think. Thanks much. Ryan
On 16/10/23 14:09, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
I know we have a few Mac users on this list so thought I’d reach out. If you are a Mac user and have access to Outlook for Mac, I’d really appreciate it if you could try out Outlook for Mac with VoiceOver and give any feedback you have, particularly on how the message list works.
The message list works well in the new version, and I haven't encountered any difficulties with it. I can elaborate if you have more specific requests for commentary. Incidentally, what's the best channel for reporting accessibility issues in Microsoft 365 applications for Mac? For example, try loading a large document into Microsoft Word for Mac with VoiceOver active, and, in my experience, the entire application becomes unresponsive for several minutes - even on my fast 14-inch MacBook Pro with 10 CPU cores. Moving from page to page within the document also introduces unresponsive behavior. Loading the same file into Apple Pages word processor occurs much more quickly, though, so this appears to be specific to the interaction of MS-Word with the accessibility services rather than an inherent performance limitation in the latter.
Hi Jason: Thanks a lot for the feedback. For me, when I am using the old Outlook for Mac and use Voiceover to navigate the message list, things work as I'd expect. AKA, I can use my up and down arrows to arrow through the list, if I have not interacted with the message list then I hear the entire content of the row. If, however, I interact with the message list, I can us VO-arrows to read cell by cell through the message list, this is what I would expect. With the new Outlook, if I use the up and down arrows to read the message list, without interacting with it I hear a lot of information reread twice. If I interact with the message list, and specifically focus on the from column and move up and down, I hear the entire header row, which I would not expect, I would only expect to hear the specific data in the from cell. I would also expect that vo-] should focus the message header row so I could sort the table by different columns. In the old Outlook for Mac, this works. In the new Outlook for Mac, this crashes Voiceover. As to generic M365 for mac feedback, please send it to the Enterprise Disability Answer Desk<mailto:edad@microsoft.com> along with any other feedback. That is the central feedback channel for accessibility issues, regardless of platform. Thanks a lot for your help. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Reply-To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Date: Monday, October 23, 2023 at 9:12 AM To: "blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Cc: Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net <mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net>> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: mac users? On 16/10/23 14:09, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
I know we have a few Mac users on this list so thought I’d reach out. If you are a Mac user and have access to Outlook for Mac, I’d really appreciate it if you could try out Outlook for Mac with VoiceOver and give any feedback you have, particularly on how the message list works.
The message list works well in the new version, and I haven't encountered any difficulties with it. I can elaborate if you have more specific requests for commentary. Incidentally, what's the best channel for reporting accessibility issues in Microsoft 365 applications for Mac? For example, try loading a large document into Microsoft Word for Mac with VoiceOver active, and, in my experience, the entire application becomes unresponsive for several minutes - even on my fast 14-inch MacBook Pro with 10 CPU cores. Moving from page to page within the document also introduces unresponsive behavior. Loading the same file into Apple Pages word processor occurs much more quickly, though, so this appears to be specific to the interaction of MS-Word with the accessibility services rather than an inherent performance limitation in the latter. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>
Hey Ryan, I know in the new Outlook, the Outlook Mac team did some work to change what was communicated for accessibility purposes based on the display density setting in the View menu. Have you experimented with that at all? This was a bit ago now of course but they were trying to support the ability to not hear header words but also the full table experience with different views from my recollection. I generally just arrow up and down the message list and don't interact but do use Outlook on the Mac pretty much daily. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 4:27 PM To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Cc: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@ryanshugart.com> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: mac users? Hi Jason: Thanks a lot for the feedback. For me, when I am using the old Outlook for Mac and use Voiceover to navigate the message list, things work as I'd expect. AKA, I can use my up and down arrows to arrow through the list, if I have not interacted with the message list then I hear the entire content of the row. If, however, I interact with the message list, I can us VO-arrows to read cell by cell through the message list, this is what I would expect. With the new Outlook, if I use the up and down arrows to read the message list, without interacting with it I hear a lot of information reread twice. If I interact with the message list, and specifically focus on the from column and move up and down, I hear the entire header row, which I would not expect, I would only expect to hear the specific data in the from cell. I would also expect that vo-] should focus the message header row so I could sort the table by different columns. In the old Outlook for Mac, this works. In the new Outlook for Mac, this crashes Voiceover. As to generic M365 for mac feedback, please send it to the Enterprise Disability Answer Desk<mailto:edad@microsoft.com> along with any other feedback. That is the central feedback channel for accessibility issues, regardless of platform. Thanks a lot for your help. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Reply-To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Date: Monday, October 23, 2023 at 9:12 AM To: "blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Cc: Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net <mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net>> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: mac users? On 16/10/23 14:09, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
I know we have a few Mac users on this list so thought I’d reach out. If you are a Mac user and have access to Outlook for Mac, I’d really appreciate it if you could try out Outlook for Mac with VoiceOver and give any feedback you have, particularly on how the message list works.
The message list works well in the new version, and I haven't encountered any difficulties with it. I can elaborate if you have more specific requests for commentary. Incidentally, what's the best channel for reporting accessibility issues in Microsoft 365 applications for Mac? For example, try loading a large document into Microsoft Word for Mac with VoiceOver active, and, in my experience, the entire application becomes unresponsive for several minutes - even on my fast 14-inch MacBook Pro with 10 CPU cores. Moving from page to page within the document also introduces unresponsive behavior. Loading the same file into Apple Pages word processor occurs much more quickly, though, so this appears to be specific to the interaction of MS-Word with the accessibility services rather than an inherent performance limitation in the latter. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org
On 23/10/23 17:27, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
With the new Outlook, if I use the up and down arrows to read the message list, without interacting with it I hear a lot of information reread twice. If I interact with the message list, and specifically focus on the from column and move up and down, I hear the entire header row, which I would not expect, I would only expect to hear the specific data in the from cell. I would also expect that vo-] should focus the message header row so I could sort the table by different columns. In the old Outlook for Mac, this works. In the new Outlook for Mac, this crashes Voiceover.
That's interesting. If I interact with the message list in the new Outlook for Mac and then use up and down arrow keys, I get the subject, the sendr, the date, and the preview message text, in that order, without repetition. This is under MacOS Sonoma, but it hasn't changed. The next question is why your results are different.
Hi Jason: What happens if you interact with the message list and use VO-up and down arrows to review? Also what happens if you use VO-left and right arrows to move from column to column in the list, in particular when you enter the from column? I hear the entire row read out even though I am only in the from column, and if I'm using VO-up and down in that column I should just hear who the message is from. Kelly, what do you have your display density set to? I went and played with that and it didn't seem to make a difference for me. I made a video on this I sent to EDAD I can put a link here if it would help anyone. Thanks. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: "Jason J.G. White via Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Reply-To: Mailing list for blind system administrators <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 8:16 AM To: "blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>" <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>> Cc: "Jason J.G. White" <jason@jasonjgw.net <mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net>> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: mac users? On 23/10/23 17:27, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote:
With the new Outlook, if I use the up and down arrows to read the message list, without interacting with it I hear a lot of information reread twice. If I interact with the message list, and specifically focus on the from column and move up and down, I hear the entire header row, which I would not expect, I would only expect to hear the specific data in the from cell. I would also expect that vo-] should focus the message header row so I could sort the table by different columns. In the old Outlook for Mac, this works. In the new Outlook for Mac, this crashes Voiceover.
That's interesting. If I interact with the message list in the new Outlook for Mac and then use up and down arrow keys, I get the subject, the sendr, the date, and the preview message text, in that order, without repetition. This is under MacOS Sonoma, but it hasn't changed. The next question is why your results are different. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org <mailto:blind-sysadmins-leave@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>
participants (4)
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Jason J.G. White -
Jason White
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Kelly Ford -
Ryan Shugart