Hi all, I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things. All ideas very much appreciated. Cheers, Ben.
If a lot of the work is via CLI, how about using screen to share a session? This should make it possible for you to watch and/or participate with the intern. http://wiki.networksecuritytoolkit.org/nstwiki/index.php/HowTo_Share_A_Termi... Chris On Thu, Nov 03, 2016 at 08:03:34PM +0000, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:
Hi all,
I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things.
All ideas very much appreciated.
Cheers, Ben.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, I do a lot of this. I pretty much do most of it using PRs and looking at scripts, plus give the people advice on various aspects and get them to do the pretty pictures! It actually works fairly well. In terms of admin what sort of stuff do you need to do? I am trying to get everything automated as it is easier for me to work out what is going on in code than actually looking over someone's shoulder and missing half the stuff. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: 03 November 2016 20:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people Hi all, I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things. All ideas very much appreciated. Cheers, Ben. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi, I do a lot of this. I pretty much do most of it using PRs and looking at scripts, plus give the people advice on various aspects and get them to do the pretty pictures! It actually works fairly well. In terms of admin what sort of stuff do you need to do? I am trying to get everything automated as it is easier for me to work out what is going on in code than actually looking over someone's shoulder and missing half the stuff. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: 03 November 2016 20:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people Hi all, I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things. All ideas very much appreciated. Cheers, Ben. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
This is interesting. I have mostly supported, worked with and hired sighted people. When supporting or teaching them I let them do the driving. As well as getting them to describe what is on the screen and where things are I realised the added benefit is it made me understand a visual environment much better and much more quickly. In the olden days when we moved from text based systems, DOS for example, to a GUI, Windows, I ended up selecting Window-Eyes. Back then Win Vision, Artic, ASAW and Jaws didn't have a visual representation of the mouse movement. Window-Eyes from the get go had the mouse navigation keys. When putting on classroom sessions that worked nicely since sighted people like to see the mouse pointer and they like to see what is being clicked. When it came time to move to a GUI my function changed and although I did some scripts I didn't do much else. When working with applications developers my role was more or less related to a systems analyst. We would go over what we had and what we wanted. The sighted programmers then made it all look pretty. Most of my application development experience was in mainframe, CP/M and DOS environments. When we moved to a GUI I was already moving into networking and administering servers. Overall I have not had any problems working with and supporting sighted people. Just talk things through and if needed ask questions. Vic Pereira Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046 Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046 -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 15:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people Hi all, I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things. All ideas very much appreciated. Cheers, Ben. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I would say +1 to everything said here. I generally have a sited person look over my shoulder but I’m much more of a CLI guy than mouse / GUI user. As mentioned, when it comes to pretty pictures I have my coworkers generate them or I’ll have the person being trained draw something out to help them understand and I work with a graphic designer who is also skilled in the network area for generating my own diagrams for presentations. Bottom line, work with your trainee as you would your other coworkers.
On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:35 PM, vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca wrote:
This is interesting. I have mostly supported, worked with and hired sighted people. When supporting or teaching them I let them do the driving. As well as getting them to describe what is on the screen and where things are I realised the added benefit is it made me understand a visual environment much better and much more quickly.
In the olden days when we moved from text based systems, DOS for example, to a GUI, Windows, I ended up selecting Window-Eyes. Back then Win Vision, Artic, ASAW and Jaws didn't have a visual representation of the mouse movement. Window-Eyes from the get go had the mouse navigation keys. When putting on classroom sessions that worked nicely since sighted people like to see the mouse pointer and they like to see what is being clicked. When it came time to move to a GUI my function changed and although I did some scripts I didn't do much else.
When working with applications developers my role was more or less related to a systems analyst. We would go over what we had and what we wanted. The sighted programmers then made it all look pretty. Most of my application development experience was in mainframe, CP/M and DOS environments. When we moved to a GUI I was already moving into networking and administering servers.
Overall I have not had any problems working with and supporting sighted people. Just talk things through and if needed ask questions.
Vic Pereira
Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046
Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 15:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
Hi all,
I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things.
All ideas very much appreciated.
Cheers, Ben.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I can share a bit of my experiences regarding supporting sighted people since it's what I do every day. I'm in the medical IT field, so more often than not, I get users who just want their computer fixed, and when it's not fixed in a timely manner, they get upset; more so when they don't get me to remote into their computer and do the task for them ... unfortunately, where I work, that behavior is encouraged by the user base; they get so used to just the help desk doing everything for them that when they get someone like me ... I end up more or less having to explain why I'm "different" than the rest of the group. I put that word in quotes because it's so subjective. I've been hung up on, I've been yelled at, and I've been told that my best isn't good enough ... not the most optimal solution. So, I find working with sighted people great when they are willing to describe what is on the screen, but I've also gotten used to not having that luxury because the user focuses too much on what is different about me and how I do things differently than the rest of my colleagues. So, take what you can get. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 11:55 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people I would say +1 to everything said here. I generally have a sited person look over my shoulder but I’m much more of a CLI guy than mouse / GUI user. As mentioned, when it comes to pretty pictures I have my coworkers generate them or I’ll have the person being trained draw something out to help them understand and I work with a graphic designer who is also skilled in the network area for generating my own diagrams for presentations. Bottom line, work with your trainee as you would your other coworkers.
On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:35 PM, vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca wrote:
This is interesting. I have mostly supported, worked with and hired sighted people. When supporting or teaching them I let them do the driving. As well as getting them to describe what is on the screen and where things are I realised the added benefit is it made me understand a visual environment much better and much more quickly.
In the olden days when we moved from text based systems, DOS for example, to a GUI, Windows, I ended up selecting Window-Eyes. Back then Win Vision, Artic, ASAW and Jaws didn't have a visual representation of the mouse movement. Window-Eyes from the get go had the mouse navigation keys. When putting on classroom sessions that worked nicely since sighted people like to see the mouse pointer and they like to see what is being clicked. When it came time to move to a GUI my function changed and although I did some scripts I didn't do much else.
When working with applications developers my role was more or less related to a systems analyst. We would go over what we had and what we wanted. The sighted programmers then made it all look pretty. Most of my application development experience was in mainframe, CP/M and DOS environments. When we moved to a GUI I was already moving into networking and administering servers.
Overall I have not had any problems working with and supporting sighted people. Just talk things through and if needed ask questions.
Vic Pereira
Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046
Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 15:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
Hi all,
I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things.
All ideas very much appreciated.
Cheers, Ben.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I can share a bit of my experiences regarding supporting sighted people since it's what I do every day. I'm in the medical IT field, so more often than not, I get users who just want their computer fixed, and when it's not fixed in a timely manner, they get upset; more so when they don't get me to remote into their computer and do the task for them ... unfortunately, where I work, that behavior is encouraged by the user base; they get so used to just the help desk doing everything for them that when they get someone like me ... I end up more or less having to explain why I'm "different" than the rest of the group. I put that word in quotes because it's so subjective. I've been hung up on, I've been yelled at, and I've been told that my best isn't good enough ... not the most optimal solution. So, I find working with sighted people great when they are willing to describe what is on the screen, but I've also gotten used to not having that luxury because the user focuses too much on what is different about me and how I do things differently than the rest of my colleagues. So, take what you can get. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 11:55 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people I would say +1 to everything said here. I generally have a sited person look over my shoulder but I’m much more of a CLI guy than mouse / GUI user. As mentioned, when it comes to pretty pictures I have my coworkers generate them or I’ll have the person being trained draw something out to help them understand and I work with a graphic designer who is also skilled in the network area for generating my own diagrams for presentations. Bottom line, work with your trainee as you would your other coworkers.
On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:35 PM, vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca wrote:
This is interesting. I have mostly supported, worked with and hired sighted people. When supporting or teaching them I let them do the driving. As well as getting them to describe what is on the screen and where things are I realised the added benefit is it made me understand a visual environment much better and much more quickly.
In the olden days when we moved from text based systems, DOS for example, to a GUI, Windows, I ended up selecting Window-Eyes. Back then Win Vision, Artic, ASAW and Jaws didn't have a visual representation of the mouse movement. Window-Eyes from the get go had the mouse navigation keys. When putting on classroom sessions that worked nicely since sighted people like to see the mouse pointer and they like to see what is being clicked. When it came time to move to a GUI my function changed and although I did some scripts I didn't do much else.
When working with applications developers my role was more or less related to a systems analyst. We would go over what we had and what we wanted. The sighted programmers then made it all look pretty. Most of my application development experience was in mainframe, CP/M and DOS environments. When we moved to a GUI I was already moving into networking and administering servers.
Overall I have not had any problems working with and supporting sighted people. Just talk things through and if needed ask questions.
Vic Pereira
Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046
Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 15:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
Hi all,
I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things.
All ideas very much appreciated.
Cheers, Ben.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I have the option of using 'tmate', which is a screen style setup for being able to see and work with someone else's terminal. Everything goes through a tmate server (we have one in-house) and it can be set up with a read-only connection. I have used the tmate setup with work colleagues. But usually a customer borks at the suggestion, because they just want WebEx etc, so then their problem isn't actually so important, or I find another colleague to help/take the case. I haven't yet found a solution for seeing/interacting with another person's GUI, unless you count NVDA Remote on Windows. The downside with this (as I believe for all of these similar solutions currently) is that the other person needs the screen-reader on their system as well. Again, the customer's I work with bork at the idea/suggestion, so I haven't had to use it in a real time high pressure situation yet. I pretty much second everything else here. If you've ever done telephone support, I suppose you could just treat it a bit like that, if you have methods for that that work well. Also you have VO as a fall back. The possible advantage to this is that if you really need it, you can at least show the intern what you see, using the VO captions and Braille viewer. I don't support a lot of our GUI products, because they suck where accessibility is concerned, so can't give much advice on that aspect. Cheers, Jen. On 11/4/16, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I can share a bit of my experiences regarding supporting sighted people since it's what I do every day. I'm in the medical IT field, so more often than not, I get users who just want their computer fixed, and when it's not fixed in a timely manner, they get upset; more so when they don't get me to remote into their computer and do the task for them ... unfortunately, where I work, that behavior is encouraged by the user base; they get so used to just the help desk doing everything for them that when they get someone like me ... I end up more or less having to explain why I'm "different" than the rest of the group. I put that word in quotes because it's so subjective. I've been hung up on, I've been yelled at, and I've been told that my best isn't good enough ... not the most optimal solution. So, I find working with sighted people great when they are willing to describe what is on the screen, but I've also gotten used to not having that luxury because the user focuses too much on what is different about me and how I do things differently than the rest of my colleagues. So, take what you can get.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 11:55 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
I would say +1 to everything said here.
I generally have a sited person look over my shoulder but I’m much more of a CLI guy than mouse / GUI user. As mentioned, when it comes to pretty pictures I have my coworkers generate them or I’ll have the person being trained draw something out to help them understand and I work with a graphic designer who is also skilled in the network area for generating my own diagrams for presentations.
Bottom line, work with your trainee as you would your other coworkers.
On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:35 PM, vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca wrote:
This is interesting. I have mostly supported, worked with and hired sighted people. When supporting or teaching them I let them do the driving. As well as getting them to describe what is on the screen and where things are I realised the added benefit is it made me understand a visual environment much better and much more quickly.
In the olden days when we moved from text based systems, DOS for example, to a GUI, Windows, I ended up selecting Window-Eyes. Back then Win Vision, Artic, ASAW and Jaws didn't have a visual representation of the mouse movement. Window-Eyes from the get go had the mouse navigation keys. When putting on classroom sessions that worked nicely since sighted people like to see the mouse pointer and they like to see what is being clicked. When it came time to move to a GUI my function changed and although I did some scripts I didn't do much else.
When working with applications developers my role was more or less related to a systems analyst. We would go over what we had and what we wanted. The sighted programmers then made it all look pretty. Most of my application development experience was in mainframe, CP/M and DOS environments. When we moved to a GUI I was already moving into networking and administering servers.
Overall I have not had any problems working with and supporting sighted people. Just talk things through and if needed ask questions.
Vic Pereira
Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046
Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 15:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
Hi all,
I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things.
All ideas very much appreciated.
Cheers, Ben.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I have the option of using 'tmate', which is a screen style setup for being able to see and work with someone else's terminal. Everything goes through a tmate server (we have one in-house) and it can be set up with a read-only connection. I have used the tmate setup with work colleagues. But usually a customer borks at the suggestion, because they just want WebEx etc, so then their problem isn't actually so important, or I find another colleague to help/take the case. I haven't yet found a solution for seeing/interacting with another person's GUI, unless you count NVDA Remote on Windows. The downside with this (as I believe for all of these similar solutions currently) is that the other person needs the screen-reader on their system as well. Again, the customer's I work with bork at the idea/suggestion, so I haven't had to use it in a real time high pressure situation yet. I pretty much second everything else here. If you've ever done telephone support, I suppose you could just treat it a bit like that, if you have methods for that that work well. Also you have VO as a fall back. The possible advantage to this is that if you really need it, you can at least show the intern what you see, using the VO captions and Braille viewer. I don't support a lot of our GUI products, because they suck where accessibility is concerned, so can't give much advice on that aspect. Cheers, Jen. On 11/4/16, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I can share a bit of my experiences regarding supporting sighted people since it's what I do every day. I'm in the medical IT field, so more often than not, I get users who just want their computer fixed, and when it's not fixed in a timely manner, they get upset; more so when they don't get me to remote into their computer and do the task for them ... unfortunately, where I work, that behavior is encouraged by the user base; they get so used to just the help desk doing everything for them that when they get someone like me ... I end up more or less having to explain why I'm "different" than the rest of the group. I put that word in quotes because it's so subjective. I've been hung up on, I've been yelled at, and I've been told that my best isn't good enough ... not the most optimal solution. So, I find working with sighted people great when they are willing to describe what is on the screen, but I've also gotten used to not having that luxury because the user focuses too much on what is different about me and how I do things differently than the rest of my colleagues. So, take what you can get.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 11:55 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
I would say +1 to everything said here.
I generally have a sited person look over my shoulder but I’m much more of a CLI guy than mouse / GUI user. As mentioned, when it comes to pretty pictures I have my coworkers generate them or I’ll have the person being trained draw something out to help them understand and I work with a graphic designer who is also skilled in the network area for generating my own diagrams for presentations.
Bottom line, work with your trainee as you would your other coworkers.
On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:35 PM, vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca wrote:
This is interesting. I have mostly supported, worked with and hired sighted people. When supporting or teaching them I let them do the driving. As well as getting them to describe what is on the screen and where things are I realised the added benefit is it made me understand a visual environment much better and much more quickly.
In the olden days when we moved from text based systems, DOS for example, to a GUI, Windows, I ended up selecting Window-Eyes. Back then Win Vision, Artic, ASAW and Jaws didn't have a visual representation of the mouse movement. Window-Eyes from the get go had the mouse navigation keys. When putting on classroom sessions that worked nicely since sighted people like to see the mouse pointer and they like to see what is being clicked. When it came time to move to a GUI my function changed and although I did some scripts I didn't do much else.
When working with applications developers my role was more or less related to a systems analyst. We would go over what we had and what we wanted. The sighted programmers then made it all look pretty. Most of my application development experience was in mainframe, CP/M and DOS environments. When we moved to a GUI I was already moving into networking and administering servers.
Overall I have not had any problems working with and supporting sighted people. Just talk things through and if needed ask questions.
Vic Pereira
Project Manager, Networks and End-Users Branch Shared Services Canada / Government of Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tel: 204-781-5046
Gestionnaire de projet, Direction des réseaux et des utilisateurs finaux Services partagés Canada / Gouvernement du Canada vic.pereira@ssc-spc.gc.ca / Tél: 204-781-5046
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 15:04 To: blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Supporting sighted people
Hi all,
I'll be supporting a sighted intern in December. At least that was what I thought would be happening until earlier today when I was told that he'd be starting on Monday. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can pear on things? He'll be using a Mac so VoiceOver is an option but I'd rather not as I want to be as unobtrusive as possible. The work is going to be typical devops stuff so a bit of programming and a bit of admin mainly over SSH. We make heavy use of GitHub for the programming side of things so I think I'll get him to work more or less independently then submit a pull request at which point we can discuss the code but I'm completely stumped about the admin side of things.
All ideas very much appreciated.
Cheers, Ben.
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participants (7)
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Andrew Hodgson -
Ben Mustill-Rose -
Chris Nestrud -
Jen Bottom -
Katherine Moss -
Scott Granados -
vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca