Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Katherine, I used to think exactly like you. Screen readers have no impact on servers when their not in use. Therefore, installing something like Jaws will cause no problems. About five times in the past two years, I've installed Jaws remotely using the "/type remote" switch via remote desktop where it has completely bluescreened the server. Three times, the servers were in remote locations where no one could get to them. One other time it was a VM. There are so many things that can cause servers to blue screen when Jaws is installed. Dodgy video card drivers, not enough graphics memory in VM's, very restricted environment settings.... I am now very afraid every time I need to install Jaws on a remote server. I do this quite a bit but five times in two years where a system crashes is five times too many. For both me and my employer. How do you tell someone that your assistive software has caused their mission critical system to go down right when they needed it most? It's an impossible situation to be in. On the 10th of October, I was called in during an emergency. A chain of hotels in England had invoices to create and distribute and they were paying huge late fee's for being a day over due. My daughter was only born less than a day earlier but I was asked very nicely to log in remotely. Of course, Jaws wasn't installed initially so I had to use Team viewer to get that part out of the way. I installed Jaws, rebooted the server with a lot of concern from the customer as it was in the middle of business hours and confidently I launched Jaws. To my absolute horror, I lost connection to the server and the shouts and roars out of the IT person on the other end of the phone confirmed that the worst possible thing had happened. To say he was furious is anunder statement. Fortunately, I got the server back up, I spoke very nicely to my wife who was still in hospital and got her to give me a hand updating the video drivers and I kicked Jaws off again and it worked fine. To say it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had doesn't come close. I don't trust any screen reader. They have too many hooks into the operating system. If I'm called in, it's because something has gone baddly wrong and the system is not reliable. It generally means that first, second and thirdline support haven't fixed it so time is really critical. I cant afford for my screen reader to be installed any more because if it goes wrong, it can cost the customer money and it can completely break the relationship my company has with them. I would nearly be better off paying someone to read the screen for me at times! Speaking as a Jaws user for over15 years, I can say that Jaws has come a long way. They have fixed a hell of a lot of bugs that I've reported to them in the past four years and overall, I'm happier with them now than I've ever been. But, I will say one very contravertial thing before I finish. I wouldn't employ a Jaws user. Even though it is more reliable and stable now, About half an hour of my week is spent finding work arounds, restarting the application or recovering from a crash. That's 26 hours a year spent on my screen reader during working hours. That doesn't include the time I spent out of hours trying to find solutions to problems that have come up. I doubt Window Eyes or any other screen reader is any better. Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Katherine, I used to think exactly like you. Screen readers have no impact on servers when their not in use. Therefore, installing something like Jaws will cause no problems. About five times in the past two years, I've installed Jaws remotely using the "/type remote" switch via remote desktop where it has completely bluescreened the server. Three times, the servers were in remote locations where no one could get to them. One other time it was a VM. There are so many things that can cause servers to blue screen when Jaws is installed. Dodgy video card drivers, not enough graphics memory in VM's, very restricted environment settings.... I am now very afraid every time I need to install Jaws on a remote server. I do this quite a bit but five times in two years where a system crashes is five times too many. For both me and my employer. How do you tell someone that your assistive software has caused their mission critical system to go down right when they needed it most? It's an impossible situation to be in. On the 10th of October, I was called in during an emergency. A chain of hotels in England had invoices to create and distribute and they were paying huge late fee's for being a day over due. My daughter was only born less than a day earlier but I was asked very nicely to log in remotely. Of course, Jaws wasn't installed initially so I had to use Team viewer to get that part out of the way. I installed Jaws, rebooted the server with a lot of concern from the customer as it was in the middle of business hours and confidently I launched Jaws. To my absolute horror, I lost connection to the server and the shouts and roars out of the IT person on the other end of the phone confirmed that the worst possible thing had happened. To say he was furious is anunder statement. Fortunately, I got the server back up, I spoke very nicely to my wife who was still in hospital and got her to give me a hand updating the video drivers and I kicked Jaws off again and it worked fine. To say it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had doesn't come close. I don't trust any screen reader. They have too many hooks into the operating system. If I'm called in, it's because something has gone baddly wrong and the system is not reliable. It generally means that first, second and thirdline support haven't fixed it so time is really critical. I cant afford for my screen reader to be installed any more because if it goes wrong, it can cost the customer money and it can completely break the relationship my company has with them. I would nearly be better off paying someone to read the screen for me at times! Speaking as a Jaws user for over15 years, I can say that Jaws has come a long way. They have fixed a hell of a lot of bugs that I've reported to them in the past four years and overall, I'm happier with them now than I've ever been. But, I will say one very contravertial thing before I finish. I wouldn't employ a Jaws user. Even though it is more reliable and stable now, About half an hour of my week is spent finding work arounds, restarting the application or recovering from a crash. That's 26 hours a year spent on my screen reader during working hours. That doesn't include the time I spent out of hours trying to find solutions to problems that have come up. I doubt Window Eyes or any other screen reader is any better. Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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A job vakency for a developer at Dolphin from around a year or so comes to mind here where the top item in the desirable section was "experience reverse enginearing the Windows kernel". If you're using high level & fully documented API's in your products then there is absolutely no need to reverse enginear anything, let alone the Windows kernel! Unfortunately, the accessibility support or lack of in some applications / languages means that you can't just make a screen reader that can interact with MSAA or query a DOM for example and have it work with the majority of applications, hense the need for some very creative thinking and some unconventional hacks in certain situations. Cheers, Ben. On 1/2/14, Darragh Ó Héiligh <d@digitaldarragh.com> wrote:
Katherine,
I used to think exactly like you. Screen readers have no impact on servers when their not in use. Therefore, installing something like Jaws will cause no problems.
About five times in the past two years, I've installed Jaws remotely using the "/type remote" switch via remote desktop where it has completely bluescreened the server. Three times, the servers were in remote locations where no one could get to them. One other time it was a VM.
There are so many things that can cause servers to blue screen when Jaws is installed. Dodgy video card drivers, not enough graphics memory in VM's, very restricted environment settings....
I am now very afraid every time I need to install Jaws on a remote server. I do this quite a bit but five times in two years where a system crashes is five times too many. For both me and my employer. How do you tell someone that your assistive software has caused their mission critical system to go down right when they needed it most? It's an impossible situation to be in. On the 10th of October, I was called in during an emergency. A chain of hotels in England had invoices to create and distribute and they were paying huge late fee's for being a day over due. My daughter was only born less than a day earlier but I was asked very nicely to log in remotely. Of course, Jaws wasn't installed initially so I had to use Team viewer to get that part out of the way. I installed Jaws, rebooted the server with a lot of concern from the customer as it was in the middle of business hours and confidently I launched Jaws. To my absolute horror, I lost connection to the server and the shouts and roars out of the IT person on the other end of the phone confirmed that the worst possible thing had happened. To say he was furious is anunder statement. Fortunately, I got the server back up, I spoke very nicely to my wife who was still in hospital and got her to give me a hand updating the video drivers and I kicked Jaws off again and it worked fine. To say it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had doesn't come close.
I don't trust any screen reader. They have too many hooks into the operating system. If I'm called in, it's because something has gone baddly wrong and the system is not reliable. It generally means that first, second and thirdline support haven't fixed it so time is really critical. I cant afford for my screen reader to be installed any more because if it goes wrong, it can cost the customer money and it can completely break the relationship my company has with them.
I would nearly be better off paying someone to read the screen for me at times!
Speaking as a Jaws user for over15 years, I can say that Jaws has come a long way. They have fixed a hell of a lot of bugs that I've reported to them in the past four years and overall, I'm happier with them now than I've ever been. But, I will say one very contravertial thing before I finish. I wouldn't employ a Jaws user. Even though it is more reliable and stable now, About half an hour of my week is spent finding work arounds, restarting the application or recovering from a crash. That's 26 hours a year spent on my screen reader during working hours. That doesn't include the time I spent out of hours trying to find solutions to problems that have come up. I doubt Window Eyes or any other screen reader is any better.
Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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A job vakency for a developer at Dolphin from around a year or so comes to mind here where the top item in the desirable section was "experience reverse enginearing the Windows kernel". If you're using high level & fully documented API's in your products then there is absolutely no need to reverse enginear anything, let alone the Windows kernel! Unfortunately, the accessibility support or lack of in some applications / languages means that you can't just make a screen reader that can interact with MSAA or query a DOM for example and have it work with the majority of applications, hense the need for some very creative thinking and some unconventional hacks in certain situations. Cheers, Ben. On 1/2/14, Darragh Ó Héiligh <d@digitaldarragh.com> wrote:
Katherine,
I used to think exactly like you. Screen readers have no impact on servers when their not in use. Therefore, installing something like Jaws will cause no problems.
About five times in the past two years, I've installed Jaws remotely using the "/type remote" switch via remote desktop where it has completely bluescreened the server. Three times, the servers were in remote locations where no one could get to them. One other time it was a VM.
There are so many things that can cause servers to blue screen when Jaws is installed. Dodgy video card drivers, not enough graphics memory in VM's, very restricted environment settings....
I am now very afraid every time I need to install Jaws on a remote server. I do this quite a bit but five times in two years where a system crashes is five times too many. For both me and my employer. How do you tell someone that your assistive software has caused their mission critical system to go down right when they needed it most? It's an impossible situation to be in. On the 10th of October, I was called in during an emergency. A chain of hotels in England had invoices to create and distribute and they were paying huge late fee's for being a day over due. My daughter was only born less than a day earlier but I was asked very nicely to log in remotely. Of course, Jaws wasn't installed initially so I had to use Team viewer to get that part out of the way. I installed Jaws, rebooted the server with a lot of concern from the customer as it was in the middle of business hours and confidently I launched Jaws. To my absolute horror, I lost connection to the server and the shouts and roars out of the IT person on the other end of the phone confirmed that the worst possible thing had happened. To say he was furious is anunder statement. Fortunately, I got the server back up, I spoke very nicely to my wife who was still in hospital and got her to give me a hand updating the video drivers and I kicked Jaws off again and it worked fine. To say it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had doesn't come close.
I don't trust any screen reader. They have too many hooks into the operating system. If I'm called in, it's because something has gone baddly wrong and the system is not reliable. It generally means that first, second and thirdline support haven't fixed it so time is really critical. I cant afford for my screen reader to be installed any more because if it goes wrong, it can cost the customer money and it can completely break the relationship my company has with them.
I would nearly be better off paying someone to read the screen for me at times!
Speaking as a Jaws user for over15 years, I can say that Jaws has come a long way. They have fixed a hell of a lot of bugs that I've reported to them in the past four years and overall, I'm happier with them now than I've ever been. But, I will say one very contravertial thing before I finish. I wouldn't employ a Jaws user. Even though it is more reliable and stable now, About half an hour of my week is spent finding work arounds, restarting the application or recovering from a crash. That's 26 hours a year spent on my screen reader during working hours. That doesn't include the time I spent out of hours trying to find solutions to problems that have come up. I doubt Window Eyes or any other screen reader is any better.
Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Hi, It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong. I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well: 1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW. The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor. If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go. I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Andrew, Well said. If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time. Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong. I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well: 1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW. The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor. If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go. I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Andrew, Well said. If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time. Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong. I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well: 1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW. The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor. If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go. I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Andrew, Well said. If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time. Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong. I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well: 1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW. The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor. If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go. I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about
but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely
JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first
in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access,
potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened
I've heard good things about this book: Manning: Learn Windows PowerShell 3 in a Month of Lunches, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/jones3/ The book is available for purchase in paper as well as pdf, ePub, and Kindle formats. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 7:52 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote: that that thing the the
entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Hi Dave, I frequently use PowerShell to perform tasks on Exchange servers. On my desktop, it is almost like opening a command prompd, and then entering the commands. It also has a feature where it will autofill commands based on a few letters of typing when you press the tab key. Most tasks I can perform either with the shell or Exchange Management Console EMC. There are some tasks where it is faster to do it in Powershell especially if you know the command. Also when you perform a task in the Exchange Management Console, EMC, it shows you the underlying powershell code that was used to execute the task through the GUI. The EMC FYI acts like an MMC snapin. Most functions for Microsoft Exchange can be performed from your client desktop eg typically running Windows XP or Windows 7, and they just access the server over the network. But you never have to actually open up a remote desktop type session. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:52 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments.
Where Mykka can we read more about Powe shell. Respectfully Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES Rochester, MN Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 2:47 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi Dave, I frequently use PowerShell to perform tasks on Exchange servers. On my desktop, it is almost like opening a command prompd, and then entering the commands. It also has a feature where it will autofill commands based on a few letters of typing when you press the tab key. Most tasks I can perform either with the shell or Exchange Management Console EMC. There are some tasks where it is faster to do it in Powershell especially if you know the command. Also when you perform a task in the Exchange Management Console, EMC, it shows you the underlying powershell code that was used to execute the task through the GUI. The EMC FYI acts like an MMC snapin. Most functions for Microsoft Exchange can be performed from your client desktop eg typically running Windows XP or Windows 7, and they just access the server over the network. But you never have to actually open up a remote desktop type session. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:52 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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I don't know specifically about any best sites I usually google what I am looking for. I know some of the Microsoft & other Exchange blogs cover Powershell commands, and sometimes they will have a link where you can copy the code to your clipboard. Also it is a lot less steps to get Powershell enabled on a Windows 7 box as opposed to an XP box, just a lot less prerequiesetts are required. Also one command I use to shorten the command prompt in the Powershell is: function prompt {"$"} So then the command line will read $ when you do a say line, instead of reading out the full path where the Powershell was opened. I find some of the training material out there is rather esoteric instead of starting to teach you a task you might actually want to perform in the real world. A sample command say to enable an Active Directory user for Exchange is: Enable-Mailbox JSmith -database Exchange33\SG1\Users4 The parameters are the AD username, and then regarding the database and storage group to create the mailbox in. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:24 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Where Mykka can we read more about Powe shell. Respectfully Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES Rochester, MN Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 2:47 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi Dave, I frequently use PowerShell to perform tasks on Exchange servers. On my desktop, it is almost like opening a command prompd, and then entering the commands. It also has a feature where it will autofill commands based on a few letters of typing when you press the tab key. Most tasks I can perform either with the shell or Exchange Management Console EMC. There are some tasks where it is faster to do it in Powershell especially if you know the command. Also when you perform a task in the Exchange Management Console, EMC, it shows you the underlying powershell code that was used to execute the task through the GUI. The EMC FYI acts like an MMC snapin. Most functions for Microsoft Exchange can be performed from your client desktop eg typically running Windows XP or Windows 7, and they just access the server over the network. But you never have to actually open up a remote desktop type session. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:52 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I'm going to try and answer all of your questions here. I agree with Ryan on most of this, though I did have the issue of Window-Eyes crashing Windows server 2008. Not to mention, it was Windows Server 2008 32 bit. My mentors and I established that while I was volunteering at Gordon, and ultimately, since that was a test server anyway, it wasn't a big deal, and we were going to rectify the issue, though we just never got around to it. Besides, I wasn't part of the install anyway, and I forgot to mention about the video driver importance, hence their reasoning for probably not bothering with video drivers. And not to mention, Window-Eyes 7's not as stable as the later versions anyway. For desktops, screen reader support's not an issue due to RIM paid for by me myself and I, hence that's not an issue for the employer, and in terms of security, RIM's no less secure than LogMeIn or one of those; same type of tool, different name, I say. It's server's that are the main issue. I'll agree that PowerShell's good since it allows for remoting, and that helps. To further the RDP takedown, for installation and configuration, use Chocolatey. Chocolatey is a package manager for Windows which can be called from PowerShell or from CMD.exe and it works with .net framework 4.0 or above. It's just like AptGet, but for Windows. It works with many sources with which a server would communicate; WPI, Cygwin, Windows Features, and so on. There is also another one called Boxstarter, which helps stand up new systems. Both of these can be used to download and install applications onto servers remotely without touching RDP. In terms of security, I tend not to think of the hooks into the system, for considering I'm licensed for both Window-eyes and JAWS, though I prefer Window-Eyes or NVDA or System Access most of the time, and if I want to keep my job, receive a job, or help a customer, why would I slip malware onto their system? I'm not like that. I also agree with the concept of including the screen reader in the image, and since I use Winstaller, I'll definitely do so. It's just natural for me now, so if a server is born with a screen reader on it, then there are less issues. But the only time I've ever seen issues with screen readers crashing servers is Windows server 2008 (not R2!) and below. I mean, there was also a performance hit on this old IBM computer I use at the place where I intern with System Access, but I prefer NVDA for what we're doing anyway, so that matter was settled quickly. Though we still have a problem with NVDA 2013.3 crashing Windows XP, but what can I say? It's probably a versioning issue there where earlier versions work better with XP. In terms of cost, I feel that the responsibility is mine to provide whatever screen readers I need, hence I will do so and not put that cost on the employer unless it is something like RAM where I simply can't afford it. That's my rule unless company policy prohibits it; use licenses that are mine or have been given to me by my state agency unless I cannot due to policy reasons. And that is what I tell every single employer I go to see during an interview. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops I don't know specifically about any best sites I usually google what I am looking for. I know some of the Microsoft & other Exchange blogs cover Powershell commands, and sometimes they will have a link where you can copy the code to your clipboard. Also it is a lot less steps to get Powershell enabled on a Windows 7 box as opposed to an XP box, just a lot less prerequiesetts are required. Also one command I use to shorten the command prompt in the Powershell is: function prompt {"$"} So then the command line will read $ when you do a say line, instead of reading out the full path where the Powershell was opened. I find some of the training material out there is rather esoteric instead of starting to teach you a task you might actually want to perform in the real world. A sample command say to enable an Active Directory user for Exchange is: Enable-Mailbox JSmith -database Exchange33\SG1\Users4 The parameters are the AD username, and then regarding the database and storage group to create the mailbox in. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:24 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Where Mykka can we read more about Powe shell. Respectfully Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES Rochester, MN Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 2:47 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi Dave, I frequently use PowerShell to perform tasks on Exchange servers. On my desktop, it is almost like opening a command prompd, and then entering the commands. It also has a feature where it will autofill commands based on a few letters of typing when you press the tab key. Most tasks I can perform either with the shell or Exchange Management Console EMC. There are some tasks where it is faster to do it in Powershell especially if you know the command. Also when you perform a task in the Exchange Management Console, EMC, it shows you the underlying powershell code that was used to execute the task through the GUI. The EMC FYI acts like an MMC snapin. Most functions for Microsoft Exchange can be performed from your client desktop eg typically running Windows XP or Windows 7, and they just access the server over the network. But you never have to actually open up a remote desktop type session. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:52 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I'm going to try and answer all of your questions here. I agree with Ryan on most of this, though I did have the issue of Window-Eyes crashing Windows server 2008. Not to mention, it was Windows Server 2008 32 bit. My mentors and I established that while I was volunteering at Gordon, and ultimately, since that was a test server anyway, it wasn't a big deal, and we were going to rectify the issue, though we just never got around to it. Besides, I wasn't part of the install anyway, and I forgot to mention about the video driver importance, hence their reasoning for probably not bothering with video drivers. And not to mention, Window-Eyes 7's not as stable as the later versions anyway. For desktops, screen reader support's not an issue due to RIM paid for by me myself and I, hence that's not an issue for the employer, and in terms of security, RIM's no less secure than LogMeIn or one of those; same type of tool, different name, I say. It's server's that are the main issue. I'll agree that PowerShell's good since it allows for remoting, and that helps. To further the RDP takedown, for installation and configuration, use Chocolatey. Chocolatey is a package manager for Windows which can be called from PowerShell or from CMD.exe and it works with .net framework 4.0 or above. It's just like AptGet, but for Windows. It works with many sources with which a server would communicate; WPI, Cygwin, Windows Features, and so on. There is also another one called Boxstarter, which helps stand up new systems. Both of these can be used to download and install applications onto servers remotely without touching RDP. In terms of security, I tend not to think of the hooks into the system, for considering I'm licensed for both Window-eyes and JAWS, though I prefer Window-Eyes or NVDA or System Access most of the time, and if I want to keep my job, receive a job, or help a customer, why would I slip malware onto their system? I'm not like that. I also agree with the concept of including the screen reader in the image, and since I use Winstaller, I'll definitely do so. It's just natural for me now, so if a server is born with a screen reader on it, then there are less issues. But the only time I've ever seen issues with screen readers crashing servers is Windows server 2008 (not R2!) and below. I mean, there was also a performance hit on this old IBM computer I use at the place where I intern with System Access, but I prefer NVDA for what we're doing anyway, so that matter was settled quickly. Though we still have a problem with NVDA 2013.3 crashing Windows XP, but what can I say? It's probably a versioning issue there where earlier versions work better with XP. In terms of cost, I feel that the responsibility is mine to provide whatever screen readers I need, hence I will do so and not put that cost on the employer unless it is something like RAM where I simply can't afford it. That's my rule unless company policy prohibits it; use licenses that are mine or have been given to me by my state agency unless I cannot due to policy reasons. And that is what I tell every single employer I go to see during an interview. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:43 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops I don't know specifically about any best sites I usually google what I am looking for. I know some of the Microsoft & other Exchange blogs cover Powershell commands, and sometimes they will have a link where you can copy the code to your clipboard. Also it is a lot less steps to get Powershell enabled on a Windows 7 box as opposed to an XP box, just a lot less prerequiesetts are required. Also one command I use to shorten the command prompt in the Powershell is: function prompt {"$"} So then the command line will read $ when you do a say line, instead of reading out the full path where the Powershell was opened. I find some of the training material out there is rather esoteric instead of starting to teach you a task you might actually want to perform in the real world. A sample command say to enable an Active Directory user for Exchange is: Enable-Mailbox JSmith -database Exchange33\SG1\Users4 The parameters are the AD username, and then regarding the database and storage group to create the mailbox in. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:24 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Where Mykka can we read more about Powe shell. Respectfully Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES Rochester, MN Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 2:47 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] My Use of Powershell was RE: Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi Dave, I frequently use PowerShell to perform tasks on Exchange servers. On my desktop, it is almost like opening a command prompd, and then entering the commands. It also has a feature where it will autofill commands based on a few letters of typing when you press the tab key. Most tasks I can perform either with the shell or Exchange Management Console EMC. There are some tasks where it is faster to do it in Powershell especially if you know the command. Also when you perform a task in the Exchange Management Console, EMC, it shows you the underlying powershell code that was used to execute the task through the GUI. The EMC FYI acts like an MMC snapin. Most functions for Microsoft Exchange can be performed from your client desktop eg typically running Windows XP or Windows 7, and they just access the server over the network. But you never have to actually open up a remote desktop type session. Best, Mika -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of David Mehler Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 8:52 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hello, For me employment is a priority, but finding a company is not easy. Trying to explain accomodations that does it, I never get a callback. As to servers, how do you use powershell and remote? If rdp in to a server is out due to not having a screen reader, then remote tools seem the way to go. Dave. On 1/3/14, Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> wrote:
Darragh and Andrew: Good points, I completely agree you should be RDPing into servers as little as possible. That being said though, if I had a server I was responsible for, AKA I was the one being paged at 3:00 in the morning if its down, that server's getting a screen reader on it, end of story. I really don't want to literally loose sleep over now what OS is this server, what remote tools do I need, etc. when I can jump on and just work with the machine directly. Not to mention that remote tools don't always cut it and if there's no screen reader on that server, you're screwed. Its better for me, and its better for the customer as it gets them up and running quicker. As to the whole screen readers are unstable on a server, I am afraid I really have to disagree here. I've had a copy of Window-Eyes on my employer's servers for the nine years I've been doing this, and there has been a grand total of zero server crashes related to the screen reader being installed on the server. There have been driver upgrades, even physical to virtual migrations, and there just hasn't been an issue. Sometimes after a video driver upgrade Window-Eyes needs to rehook itself into the video chane and that might need an extra reboot, but that's just something that's watched for when upgrades are done. And actually to be honest, that hasn't really happened in the past few years, Server 2003 was really bad about that but Window-Eyes seems to handle driver changes in newer OS's better. I presume JAWS would work just the same. So, I think the fear may be slightly overblown. As to the employer's concerns, again I just haven't seen it. When I was looking for work it was something I was worried about, but when I actually got in, it just turned out not to be a big deal, either with the company that hired me or the larger company that bought us out. These days, we install Window-Eyes in the server images, so when a new server is deployed, Window-Eyes is just there ready to go should I ever need to log onto that server. Which has come in very handy. Ryan
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh Ó Héiligh Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 5:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Andrew,
Well said.
If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time.
Darragh
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong.
I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well:
1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW.
The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor.
If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go.
I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
________________________________ This message contains information from Neighborhood Health Plan that may be confidential or privileged. This message is directed only to the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this email is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
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Andrew, Well said. If at all possible, using RDP to access the server should be avoided. I just logged into one of our report servers today to find there were two sessions left connected for a week and a half. People just don't seem to understand that every active session uses memory and CPU time. Darragh -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: 02 January 2014 22:59 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong. I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well: 1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW. The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor. If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go. I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Hi, It took me a bit to write this email, and I'm sorry if it has come out wrong. I myself avoid installing any remote screen reader on any mission critical server. They just aren't reliable. I have fortunately not had any crashes on any mission critical server, but that is because of a few things, not all of them will probably go down well: 1. I have some sight and use the built-in magnifier when I can. Without this I don't think I would have got as far as I have now. 2. I use remote applications wherever possible, this I believe is good practise anyhow. Remote PowerShell isn't a problem. Using SQL Management Studio remotely isn't a problem. It is all done from your local machine with whatever screen reader you have. There are people out there that say it is better to RDP in as it is more secure, this can be true at times, but doesn't mean you need to RDP into the actual server, use a jump box machine as a go-between, and use JFW on that server. 3. Test machines. They are worth their weight in gold, and of course you can do anything you want on them, including installing JFW. The main issues I find with JFW is video drivers. Most often with a bear metal server install the video drivers are out of date or just using standard video support. This can choke the screen reader or even crash it. I always keep the video drivers up to date on test systems. Deployment tools now do install the video drivers on later Oss, and VMware tools etc. keeps drivers installed correctly. However the video hooks/driver issues are the main issues I have with server installs of AT technology. This is where I believe NVDA and similar are paving the way forward, unfortunately sometimes with some degradation in access using the review cursor. If you can get the software installed at build time that is always a bonus, but once that server goes live I wouldn't update the software once installed in case it breaks something. You also have to consider limitations imposed by group policies or secure environments, where everything on the machine has to be justified, and if auditors feel the software is a security risk (which it really could be as when all said and done JFW is a desktop app), then it has to go. I'm really sorry if I made this a bit gloomy, I just want to explain why I feel that people have the attitude of not allowing these types of installations, as I fear now I would be amongst these groups of people. I do feel that with Microsoft pushing more remote admin tools, and more cloud based offerings, that this could change in the future. It is unlikely that JFW or similar will change the way the screen readers work in order to accommodate the server admin functions. I feel confident that NVDA will eventually be able to break into RDP access, and when that happens this will be a game changer if the system can be ran without permanent installation to the server. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: 02 January 2014 18:57 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops Hi, Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops You can run the setup executable with one of these switches: /Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected. /Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup. More information is here: http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118 Chris On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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Katherine and all. Window 8 has got rid of the video mirror drivers which removes the issue in relation to stability of screen readers under Windows 7.0 and before. So reviewing the screen is more difficult then it was before. The jury is out if this is a step forward or backwards. Haven't spent enough time to make a decision on this. Katherine how do you envisage you would implement your concept of having a screen reader on every laptop in a organisation install build to give you the similar support access as your sighted co-workers? Try and think of this from the employer point of view. Such as: How stable is the A.T software when installed? What issue will arise when the software is install and not being used? What security risks are there? How much will it cost us? How does the licensing work? Any authentication required and is it network aware? How can you simulate a remote control software so you and the end-user can see the same thing? etc. I would be very interested in seeing your response. Since it has been a long time since I have done desktop support. When I did it, it was more face to face or providing instructions over the phone. Sean On 03/01/2014, at 5:57 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
If I understand it, it's for servers which will have JAWS on them, but from which you'd never be running JAWS locally. But I think that the first thing in this conversation should be to figure out how to teach employers, customers, and potential employers and customers that screen readers are not an intrusive type of software and that they are just software like everything else running on a computer. In other words, as long as blind folks accessing the computer locally or remotely doesn't have the screen reader enabled at logon or while they're not present on the computer, who should care? I personally think no one should and screen readers should be allowed in any and all environments. That's been a real setback for me during an interview, when I mention about reasonable accomodations and how a screen reader may have to be installed on each remote computer I access, the potential employer often flinches and fails to get back to me. Even when I tell them that I get screen reader licenses through the Mass Commission for the blind and from my own pocket. I mean, it's hard to deny that Window-Eyes 7 did crash a server at my college once; we were trying to install it on a virtual machine and it simply crashed and blue screened the entire server. As a result, I was never raised to my full potential while working an volunteering down there because the people were just so busy with so much other stuff and screen reader troubleshooting just wasn't priority one on their list of priorities. I'd still like to go back down there and try it again though, believe me.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2014 12:36 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Yep, /remote does do a full install of JFW though on the target machine. I never used the /server option though, not sure what the use of this would be.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 17:11 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
You can run the setup executable with one of these switches:
/Type Remote - Use this setup type when installing JAWS on a computer that will be accessed through a terminal session by JAWS users. Special video hooks for terminal services are installed and the virtual speech and braille drivers are set up. If you are running the installation from a remote location during a terminal session, this setup type is automatically detected.
/Type SilentRemote - JAWS is silently installed as a Remote setup.
More information is here:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/BulletinView.asp?QC=1118
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:58 am, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
Hi,
Sorry to be dumb. But when you say only the remote access components of JFW need installing on the server, I haven't been able to get that option. I can only install a full copy of JFW on the server. It isn't activated, but it is still the full installation with all of the other stuff like FS Reader and the like.
Is there an option to do a minimal install on the server for remote access deployments?
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nestrud Sent: 02 January 2014 16:42 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Concerning JFW, the copy on the desktop from which you will be initiating the RDP connection needs to have the Remote Access add-on installed. This add-on costs $200.00. The system to which you will be connecting needs to have JFW installed, either a full version of JFW, or only the remote access components. The copy of JFW on the system to which you will be connecting does not need to be authorized. Concerning the copy of JFW on the system from which you will be initiating the connection, it can be authorized using an ILM key or using a dongle.
That said, in cases where you'll be switching computers regularly, a dongle is a nice thing to have.
Chris
On Thu, January 2, 2014 10:05 am, Fermin, German wrote:
I own a remote jaws license here. One thing that Freedom does mnot make very clear, you also need to buy a dongle.. I think it's 200 dollars for them to press a few buttons and change your account and 45 dollars for the dongle. It's been a while since these were purchased so prices may have changed since then
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 6:28 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
The remote license for JFW only needs to be purchased if you want to access a remote JFW via Citrix or RDP. Using sound redirection via TeamViewer or LogMeIn can be used with a standard license without the features installed. I don't own a remote JFW license over here.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: 31 December 2013 14:25 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Are you using JFW with the remote access enabled?
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:17 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Cluncky slow but your able to get use to it, installed it on my machines on my home network and tried remotely controlling each machine and you have to enter a code and password but worked as if you were sitting in front of the machine. Depends on the memory and resources of the remotely controlled machine.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:05 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Clunky like NVDA or a different kind of clunky?
HF
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:02 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
I have used Team viewer and its clunky but usable.
I have used RAM enough to offer support if needed and am sorry to hear about your experiences.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Fermin, German Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:53 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
RIM and RAM uses the Serotek screen reader. For the most part, pretty easy to set up. Tehc support is horrible in my own experience. Not because they didn't know how to help just that they took so long to answer my questions. So long that they gave me an extra 60-days free trial. By that time I was very disenchanted with the product. At least the tech support side of it. I was told one day that the tech support person was not available because she was busy finishing up a podcast and that she would call me as soon as it was done. She got back to me two weeks later.
Sadly, it's probably the best all in one solution for Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops. Second would be JFW
I'm interested on how others use Team viewer
HF -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:30 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
NO, you I believe you can use either RAMN or RIM without a screen reader, but the people at Serotek would best be able to answer this question.
650.249.1000
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:00 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Steve,
does the RIM product require SayToGo or any other screen reader?
My prime focus is to access a CRT, Putty or any SSH/Telnet app that is based upon the customers network. I cannot use remote SSH from my desktop because customer's do not permit this due to security reasons. They used to in the old days, but no longer.
Sean On 31/12/2013, at 5:34 AM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I had no idea that TeamViewer had an audio redirect feature. I sure hope it's not through voice chat. Radmin is like that, and it's the biggest pain in the butt to set up.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerra Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:05 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Just have it on my machines and works find, no specific reason.
Respectfully
Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Check out our 2013 New E-Catalog Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:56 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Remember that something like RIM or RAM, is technically no different from LogMeIn, TeamViewer, or one of those (either way, a piece of software has to be installed on the end being remoted into.) And why do you strictly mention TeamViewer 8? What's special about version 8 that's not compatible with the later versions?
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:17 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
When you are using PuTTY etc, are you doing this from your machine, or remoting into another machine using something like Webex then using PuTTY on the remote end?
If you can get PuTTY working on your machine, then remote in via SSH, then that is both more secure and will work with JFW.
If you are relying on an underlying remote connection to use a remote copy of PuTTY, then I'm afraid you are out of luck unless you can install a screen reader.
The litest install is currently a portible version of NVDA using a remote technology that can pipe sound from the remote system to your system. I find Webex not very useful in this regard, it is more tailored to providing presentation and demo capabilities rather than remote support.
I have some products which run on Linux appliances, and the guys always use Webex to get into a PuTTY session on my desktop, which has SSH access to the devices. The user experience is painful to say the least.
Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Sean Murphy Sent: 30 December 2013 00:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
SayToGo software only works with programs it knows about. If you use SaytoGo with programs that it isn't aware, then it doesn't provide much assistance.
The other options that have been outlined I would like to know more about. Such how to configure them. I am not interested in knowing about JFW or Window-eyes. I have a similar situation with controlling customer's remote desktops. The challenge I have is that I need to be able to use any terminal program such as CRT, Putty, etc. I cannot install JFW or window-eye's in the customer's environment. So these screen reading solutions are not practical or possible. SayToGo does not work with terminal programs as I have mention, so I cannot use them.
Currently we use a product called Webex to access peoples desktop. This program can either control a app or desktop.
Any ideas team?
On 27/12/2013, at 2:58 PM, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu> wrote:
I personally do not find having a screen reader present on the server intrusive. As long as it is only running when you start the remote session and then you shut it down before logging out, that is your best solution server side. Window-eyes works best for this since their remote desktop virtual channel is free and does not require a sound card or other audio device on the server. Remote Access Manager will work as well, though it might be considered way too costly. Client side, I'd use RIM from serotek because the only thing the user has to install on their computer is the host software, not much different from a normal remote session with LogMeIn or one of those. Besides, is LogMeIn's audio redirection feature even free? I'm not quite sure it is, but I don't think so though.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hodgson Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 6:31 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
Scenario 1:
Forget anything like the VmWare client for remote access, it doesn't provide audio redirection and is just a console screen image.
RDP will work in two ways: 1. Using JFW or WindowEyes installed on the server and client. You get good speech and Braille feedback, but need the AT installed on the server as well. 2. Same as above, but using audio redirection to get the speech to your desktop. This has the advantage that you can use NVDA on the server in this mode, but is laggy and also requires that the Windows Audio service is running, and Group Policy is set to redirect audio. No Braille support.
I am hoping that at some point NVDA can work in option 1, as that would be very cool. I think the option 1 is only available if an RDP hook driver is installed on the server, which is slightly intrusive, but not as intrusive as installing JFW or WE etc.
Scenario 2 is kind of similar with the remote audio redirection and RDP for local machines where you can remote into them using RDP, but if using tools such as Team Viewer or Log Me In, then you need to use audio redirection and a screen reader installed on the machine. There is also Remote Access Manager from Serotek, but I haven't played with these.
Thanks. Andrew.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Mika Pyyhkala Sent: 26 December 2013 22:35 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Best Remote Desktop Tools for Accessing Servers & Desktops
Hi,
I would like to present two scenarios, and see what sort of tools or combination of tools people are using & find most helpful for accessing remote desktop sessions or similar functionality.
Scenario 1: Server Access I will sometimes need to remote desktop in to a server such as an Exchange server or a Office Communicator server. While most functions can be performed from your desktop pc client using a console or Powershell, there are some functions that must be performed logged in to the server itself. My challenge is now when I use MSTSC I lose speech almost immediately since these servers do not have Jaws or other AT on them. We may also need to enable the Windows audio service as I am not sure that even Narrator will work at this point.
We also have a VMWare infrastructure for many of our servers, but the VmWare console, it is kind of like remote desktop or being on the console itself, does not appear to work with Jaws....I did not really think it would work.
So far I have been able to use the assistance of colleagues, but I wonder how others do this? Right now I launch the MSTSC and then let someone else "drive."
I think a real issue, and perhaps an easy one, may be that our servers just aren't enabled by default with the Windows Audio service to allow Narrator. But then again, if its a complex task, I don't think I would get enough information from Narrator alone, and it may be time consuming to use Narrator.
Scenario 2: Access to a Users Desktop I will also sometimes need to access a remote desktop type session on an end users Windows XP or Windows 7 desktop computer. This might be to install or configure an application, troubleshoot something, or work on say a machine in our training room. These machines also would not have Jaws or any other AT on them, although as needed it would be easier to install AT on these machines than it would be on our production servers :).
Under this scenario also may be helping a remote user or family member in a different physical location.
I have done this a little with Jaws tandem in the past and it has worked relatively well again if the end user I am trying to help has Jaws.
I know I have read some discussions about remote desktop but I'm just wondering how exactly folks handle these scenarios, and what type of tools & solutions are best?
Best, Mika Pyyhkala
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participants (10)
-
Andrew Hodgson -
Ben Mustill-Rose -
Chris Nestrud -
Darragh Ó Héiligh -
David Mehler -
Katherine Moss -
Mika Pyyhkala -
Ryan Shugart -
Sean Murphy -
Stephen Guerra