Hi, I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers. If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons. The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff. Cheers, Barry.
Hi Barry, The advantage of RIM is that it is screen reader independent. That is to say that you can remote support a machine with no screen reader on it, since RIM runs System Access remotely on your local PC, an end user needn't even know you have a screen reader. Even better though, if the end user does have a screen reader, such as Window-Eyes, you will get the audio from that screen reader, rather than System Access running. It supports, Window-Eyes, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think it supports Supernova at this time. Disclaimer: I am a UK reseller of RIM, but I think it is the perfect solution for me as a blind technician. If you want a 30 day no obligation demo, please feel free to contact me. All the best Steve -- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 Email: steve@comproom.co.uk Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 29 September 2012 16:14 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi, I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers. If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons. The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff. Cheers, Barry. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Steve, Thanks for coming back so quickly. Can you tell me how RIM is implemented? Is it software that installs onto a central server within the org? Is it a Server all in one piece of hardware? I've a meeting on Monday and I'd like to give them as much information as possible. I'm sure there'll be some policy hick ups, which is why I'd like as much info and as many options as possible. Cheers again, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: 29 September 2012 16:23 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi Barry, The advantage of RIM is that it is screen reader independent. That is to say that you can remote support a machine with no screen reader on it, since RIM runs System Access remotely on your local PC, an end user needn't even know you have a screen reader. Even better though, if the end user does have a screen reader, such as Window-Eyes, you will get the audio from that screen reader, rather than System Access running. It supports, Window-Eyes, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think it supports Supernova at this time. Disclaimer: I am a UK reseller of RIM, but I think it is the perfect solution for me as a blind technician. If you want a 30 day no obligation demo, please feel free to contact me. All the best Steve -- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 Email: steve@comproom.co.uk Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 29 September 2012 16:14 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi, I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers. If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons. The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff. Cheers, Barry. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Steve, Thanks for coming back so quickly. Can you tell me how RIM is implemented? Is it software that installs onto a central server within the org? Is it a Server all in one piece of hardware? I've a meeting on Monday and I'd like to give them as much information as possible. I'm sure there'll be some policy hick ups, which is why I'd like as much info and as many options as possible. Cheers again, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: 29 September 2012 16:23 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi Barry, The advantage of RIM is that it is screen reader independent. That is to say that you can remote support a machine with no screen reader on it, since RIM runs System Access remotely on your local PC, an end user needn't even know you have a screen reader. Even better though, if the end user does have a screen reader, such as Window-Eyes, you will get the audio from that screen reader, rather than System Access running. It supports, Window-Eyes, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think it supports Supernova at this time. Disclaimer: I am a UK reseller of RIM, but I think it is the perfect solution for me as a blind technician. If you want a 30 day no obligation demo, please feel free to contact me. All the best Steve -- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 Email: steve@comproom.co.uk Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 29 September 2012 16:14 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi, I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers. If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons. The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff. Cheers, Barry. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi. I have to agree with Steve here. This is what I have been using for the last couple of years. The price is a little steap but it has saved me countless hours of effort in remote supporting machines. There are some issues with any machine that has a newer version of Jaws on it as it will be unhappy if you reboot and have jaws starting automatically as jaws will crash everytime. I have also had issues with machines with jaws running have problems when uac dialogues come up and not being able to interact with the uac dialogue and having to get the user to do it but since you will likely mostly be supporting sighted users with no screen reader, this won't be an issue. feel free to round me up on skype and we can even have a play with it if you want. going to hardware store but will be back in an hour or so and should be on skype all day after that. Brian. On 29/09/2012 11:26 AM, Barry Toner wrote:
Hi Steve,
Thanks for coming back so quickly. Can you tell me how RIM is implemented? Is it software that installs onto a central server within the org? Is it a Server all in one piece of hardware? I've a meeting on Monday and I'd like to give them as much information as possible. I'm sure there'll be some policy hick ups, which is why I'd like as much info and as many options as possible.
Cheers again, Barry.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: 29 September 2012 16:23 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions
Hi Barry,
The advantage of RIM is that it is screen reader independent. That is to say that you can remote support a machine with no screen reader on it, since RIM runs System Access remotely on your local PC, an end user needn't even know you have a screen reader. Even better though, if the end user does have a screen reader, such as Window-Eyes, you will get the audio from that screen reader, rather than System Access running. It supports, Window-Eyes, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think it supports Supernova at this time.
Disclaimer: I am a UK reseller of RIM, but I think it is the perfect solution for me as a blind technician.
If you want a 30 day no obligation demo, please feel free to contact me.
All the best
Steve
-- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 Email: steve@comproom.co.uk Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 29 September 2012 16:14 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions
Hi,
I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers.
If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons.
The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt
I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff.
Cheers, Barry.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore
Hi Brian, cheers for this explaination. I'll grab you on Skype. It'll probably be tomorrow though, s I'm heading out tonight to a concert then to meet a friend for his birthday drinks. Cheers again, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Brian Moore Sent: 29 September 2012 16:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi. I have to agree with Steve here. This is what I have been using for the last couple of years. The price is a little steap but it has saved me countless hours of effort in remote supporting machines. There are some issues with any machine that has a newer version of Jaws on it as it will be unhappy if you reboot and have jaws starting automatically as jaws will crash everytime. I have also had issues with machines with jaws running have problems when uac dialogues come up and not being able to interact with the uac dialogue and having to get the user to do it but since you will likely mostly be supporting sighted users with no screen reader, this won't be an issue. feel free to round me up on skype and we can even have a play with it if you want. going to hardware store but will be back in an hour or so and should be on skype all day after that. Brian. On 29/09/2012 11:26 AM, Barry Toner wrote:
Hi Steve,
Thanks for coming back so quickly. Can you tell me how RIM is implemented? Is it software that installs onto a central server within the org? Is it a Server all in one piece of hardware? I've a meeting on Monday and I'd like to give them as much information as possible. I'm sure there'll be some policy hick ups, which is why I'd like as much info and as many options as possible.
Cheers again, Barry.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: 29 September 2012 16:23 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions
Hi Barry,
The advantage of RIM is that it is screen reader independent. That is to say that you can remote support a machine with no screen reader on it, since RIM runs System Access remotely on your local PC, an end user needn't even know you have a screen reader. Even better though, if the end user does have a screen reader, such as Window-Eyes, you will get the audio from that screen reader, rather than System Access running. It supports, Window-Eyes, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think it supports Supernova at this time.
Disclaimer: I am a UK reseller of RIM, but I think it is the perfect solution for me as a blind technician.
If you want a 30 day no obligation demo, please feel free to contact me.
All the best
Steve
-- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 Email: steve@comproom.co.uk Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 29 September 2012 16:14 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions
Hi,
I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers.
If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons.
The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt
I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff.
Cheers, Barry.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Brian, cheers for this explaination. I'll grab you on Skype. It'll probably be tomorrow though, s I'm heading out tonight to a concert then to meet a friend for his birthday drinks. Cheers again, Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Brian Moore Sent: 29 September 2012 16:38 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi. I have to agree with Steve here. This is what I have been using for the last couple of years. The price is a little steap but it has saved me countless hours of effort in remote supporting machines. There are some issues with any machine that has a newer version of Jaws on it as it will be unhappy if you reboot and have jaws starting automatically as jaws will crash everytime. I have also had issues with machines with jaws running have problems when uac dialogues come up and not being able to interact with the uac dialogue and having to get the user to do it but since you will likely mostly be supporting sighted users with no screen reader, this won't be an issue. feel free to round me up on skype and we can even have a play with it if you want. going to hardware store but will be back in an hour or so and should be on skype all day after that. Brian. On 29/09/2012 11:26 AM, Barry Toner wrote:
Hi Steve,
Thanks for coming back so quickly. Can you tell me how RIM is implemented? Is it software that installs onto a central server within the org? Is it a Server all in one piece of hardware? I've a meeting on Monday and I'd like to give them as much information as possible. I'm sure there'll be some policy hick ups, which is why I'd like as much info and as many options as possible.
Cheers again, Barry.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: 29 September 2012 16:23 To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions
Hi Barry,
The advantage of RIM is that it is screen reader independent. That is to say that you can remote support a machine with no screen reader on it, since RIM runs System Access remotely on your local PC, an end user needn't even know you have a screen reader. Even better though, if the end user does have a screen reader, such as Window-Eyes, you will get the audio from that screen reader, rather than System Access running. It supports, Window-Eyes, JAWS and NVDA. I don't think it supports Supernova at this time.
Disclaimer: I am a UK reseller of RIM, but I think it is the perfect solution for me as a blind technician.
If you want a 30 day no obligation demo, please feel free to contact me.
All the best
Steve
-- Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 Email: steve@comproom.co.uk Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: 29 September 2012 16:14 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions
Hi,
I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers.
If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons.
The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt
I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff.
Cheers, Barry.
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
-- follow me on twitter http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 contact me on skype: brian.moore _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Bary- I use remote access Manager with the other employees in my company to remotely control their pc and resolve issues for them. But I do use the remote services for Jaws to perform tasks on or servers/ Stephen Guerra Assistive Technology Specialist and Technical Operations independent living aids, LLC | SOUNDBYTES 200 Robbins Lane Jericho, New York 11753-2341 Phone: 800.537.2118 Direct: 516.450.3817 Fax: 516.450.3842 E-mail: stephen@independentliving.com Web sites: www.independentliving.com www.soundbytes.com -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Barry Toner Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 10:14 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote support solutions Hi, I've just accepted a job that will require me to do some RS. I'd like some feedback on solutions people are using with screen readers. If you can give me a couple of paragraphs on what you're using and how (roughly), it's implemented. I'm talking high level, I'm not asking you to write me a tutorial. Also any pro's cons. The ones I've heard of but have no experience or any technicians views on them yet, are installing JFW/Win Eyes on a Citrix Server, the company has and owns their Citrix server so this may be an option. The other is Remote Incident Manager (RIM) http://t.co/6oLmlWqt I'm working in the UK, so our government Access To Work may be an option to help fund the latter solution, if it's cleaner, less performance issues, eg dicy audio than the Citrix stuff. Cheers, Barry. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...
Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais...
Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Well, if you really want a pointer in the right direction, I can put you in contact with the Chief Technology Officer of VMWare, Steve Herrod, and the VP for User Experience, Jay Massena. I happened to meet Mr. Herrod at a convention a few years ago. He put me in contact with Mr. Messina. They asked me to put them in touch with blind VMWare admins who they could work with on accessibility. Of course, I came on this list and asked again and again for volunteers. It may be too late. But if anyone on this list is willing to form a team, I am still willing to do what I can to help. Otherwise, you can probably submit a bug report. That might also work. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:15 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer / Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais agusseanadh/ _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Definitely, count me in. My linux hosts are slowly being moved from dedicated hardware onto HP Blade Centers running vmware. I would be willing to assist any way I can to help with accessibility for vmware. Many THANKS! Terry -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:37 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Cc: 'Blind-sysadmins' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Well, if you really want a pointer in the right direction, I can put you in contact with the Chief Technology Officer of VMWare, Steve Herrod, and the VP for User Experience, Jay Massena. I happened to meet Mr. Herrod at a convention a few years ago. He put me in contact with Mr. Messina. They asked me to put them in touch with blind VMWare admins who they could work with on accessibility. Of course, I came on this list and asked again and again for volunteers. It may be too late. But if anyone on this list is willing to form a team, I am still willing to do what I can to help. Otherwise, you can probably submit a bug report. That might also work. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:15 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer / Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais agusseanadh/ _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Definitely, count me in. My linux hosts are slowly being moved from dedicated hardware onto HP Blade Centers running vmware. I would be willing to assist any way I can to help with accessibility for vmware. Many THANKS! Terry -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 10:37 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Cc: 'Blind-sysadmins' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Well, if you really want a pointer in the right direction, I can put you in contact with the Chief Technology Officer of VMWare, Steve Herrod, and the VP for User Experience, Jay Massena. I happened to meet Mr. Herrod at a convention a few years ago. He put me in contact with Mr. Messina. They asked me to put them in touch with blind VMWare admins who they could work with on accessibility. Of course, I came on this list and asked again and again for volunteers. It may be too late. But if anyone on this list is willing to form a team, I am still willing to do what I can to help. Otherwise, you can probably submit a bug report. That might also work. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:15 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer / Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais agusseanadh/ _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Darragh: The people I've been working with are specific to the web client. When I was at VMWorld, I attended a session on the new features in VSphere 5.1. One of the presenters was a man named Ameet Joni, who was the product manager for the web client, and he introduced me to the person who was doing accessibility for the Flex client. She came out to my office early last week and that's when we had our meeting. We don't use View here, we have Xen Desktop from Citrix. However, we do use SRM, and the SRM 4.0 interface is OK. Not great, but I can kind of navigate it, possibly with some scripts or something like that. How SRM 5.0 will work I have no clue, I don't know if its going to be part of the Flex client or the old VIC, what VMWare calls the C Sharp client. The people I've been talking to are very specific to the Flex client, but as things progress I think we'll branch out to those other areas, they do know we're an SRM customer. Fortunately we have a contractor who will do the initial setup for us so I don't need to worry about that one. One important note, the C Sharp client is still available in vSphere 5.1. I don't think we're going to see any accessibility changes to the Flex client until 6.0, but for now this isn't a problem, we can go on working with vSphere just like we always have. There are some components like the new SSO administration that are web based and that I haven't played with yet because there isn't any good documentation on how to work with them, but they are not flex based and aren't part of the web client. One of my big tasks today is to draw up our plan to migrate from 4.1 to 5.1, minus the SRM part, and I'm feeling good that I have a good stratigy in place to make it happen. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:14 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Darragh: The people I've been working with are specific to the web client. When I was at VMWorld, I attended a session on the new features in VSphere 5.1. One of the presenters was a man named Ameet Joni, who was the product manager for the web client, and he introduced me to the person who was doing accessibility for the Flex client. She came out to my office early last week and that's when we had our meeting. We don't use View here, we have Xen Desktop from Citrix. However, we do use SRM, and the SRM 4.0 interface is OK. Not great, but I can kind of navigate it, possibly with some scripts or something like that. How SRM 5.0 will work I have no clue, I don't know if its going to be part of the Flex client or the old VIC, what VMWare calls the C Sharp client. The people I've been talking to are very specific to the Flex client, but as things progress I think we'll branch out to those other areas, they do know we're an SRM customer. Fortunately we have a contractor who will do the initial setup for us so I don't need to worry about that one. One important note, the C Sharp client is still available in vSphere 5.1. I don't think we're going to see any accessibility changes to the Flex client until 6.0, but for now this isn't a problem, we can go on working with vSphere just like we always have. There are some components like the new SSO administration that are web based and that I haven't played with yet because there isn't any good documentation on how to work with them, but they are not flex based and aren't part of the web client. One of my big tasks today is to draw up our plan to migrate from 4.1 to 5.1, minus the SRM part, and I'm feeling good that I have a good stratigy in place to make it happen. Ryan ________________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh [Darragh.OHeiligh@Oireachtas.ie] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:14 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Ryan, This is very interesting. Can you give me a point in the right direction to speak to these people? I have actually had a lot of problems with the VMWare view web client. Also, the SRM UI isn't exactly great. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:11 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Yeah I talked to them about that, and I do a lot of PowerCLI myself. The problem is PowerCLI is designed more for scripting, not so much for day to day use as an admin UI. They've had even normal sighted administrators complain about that, but right now, some things are kind of on the clunky side in the CLI. Granted, they're on the clunky side in the UI too. As far as their accessibility people go, they're there because VMWare has to make their software 508 compliant and all that. They said I'm the first blind admin who has come forward and said there is a problem, so until now they've had no actual blind people to test and confirm the accessibility meets their needs. Since its flex based, I guess they've implemented some stuff Adobe said should work, but well, doesn't in practice. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 8:04 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Blind-sysadmins Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Ryan, They have accessibility people? Wow! I didn't know that actually. I have labeled most of the buttons that I've needed in the web UI. One thing I'd love to do is move more toward using the CLI. Just completely ignore the UI. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 15:01 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: Your experience is very different than mine, I've found a lot of unlabeled buttons, some controls that didn't read properly, etc. I don't think I'd be anywhere near as productive in the web client than I am in the current VIC, as bad as it is. When I was at VMWorld in August, I met with one of the product managers for the web client and talked with him about my issues, then just last week one of their accessibility people was out at my office and we went through the web client, and she took four pages of notes. We're about to start a 5.1 rollout along with a SRM 5 implementation, we're going to do a side by side upgrade, where we leave the old VCenter host up, and then migrate cluster by cluster to the new environment, so the upgrade as a whole will take several months. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:52 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I've had a play with the web client for 5.0 U1 and .... all I can say at the moment is ... Meh. IT's not bad! It's certainly not great! No plans to jump to 5.1 just yet. We have a lot of VMWare services running here such as view, VShield etc so a lot of testing will need to be completed before I upgrade. I'm thinking of getting to it during the last two weeks of December. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie From: Ryan Shugart <rshugart@pcisys.net> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org>, Date: 01/10/2012 14:44 Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Sent by: "Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Hi Darragh: We really don't have an ESXI update policy, it's a whenever I get around to it sort of thing. We have ESX hosts located all over the world, and many of them don't have other hosts I can VMotion machines off to or anying like that. Some of those hosts actually have never had updates applied because I can't get a good time to shut down the VMs on them and install patches. The hosts in our main datacenters do get updated every few months, and at that point I just install all available updates. I honestly haven't really gotten the Update Manager interface to work at all with Window-Eyes, so I use an Update Manager module for PowerCLI. That works pretty well, but as I said it doesn't get me the level of control as the GUI updatemanager has, but oh well. We've not had any issues yet. On a similar note, what version of VC are you guys running? Any plans to go to VC 5.1 anytime soon? Have you had a play with the web client? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [ mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Darragh OHeiligh Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 7:10 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] ESXI update policies. Hello, I was just wondering, Do you have a policy for updating eSXI hosts? Drawing from their recommendations at the following KB article it would seem that VMware suggest that updates are applied very quickly after release however as we all know, What software prociders suggest and what is viable are two very different things. I applied a patch on Friday to an ESXI cluster that was only four days old. Quite rightly, it was flagged this morning by someone else here as being a possible risk. http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/upgrade.html It just got me thinking, the list for checking and unchecking updates isn't the cleanest thing out there. It's very easy to let an update through that is only out a few days. 1. Do you bother checking release dates? 2. If so, what is your policy? Do you leave updates to settle for a month? 3. If you don't install some updates, What method have you developed to distinguish bleeding edge updates? Thanks. I'm going to be asked about this in a meeting on wednesday so it would be interesting to have others opinions. Of course, I should have caught the patch that was four days old so, it's entirely my fault but as luck would have it, it hasn't caused any problems. Their arguement will be, well, it could have. It hasn't been out in the wild long enough to be tested by the eSXI user base. Regards Darragh Ó Héiligh Fujitsu Offices of the Houses of the Oireachtas, Fredrick Building, South Fredrick Street, Dublin2 Telephone: +353 (1) 618 3559 Email: darragh.oheiligh@oireachtas.ie Internet: http://www.oireachtas.ie Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer... Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtais... _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
participants (8)
-
Barry Toner -
Brian Moore -
Darragh OHeiligh -
John G. Heim -
Klarich, Terry J. -
Ryan Shugart -
Stephen Guerra -
Steve Nutt