Blindness and customer consulting question
Here's a non technical but job related question I'd love to get input on. BACKGROUND I am in the job search again. I'm employed but looking for a change so I've been out there shopping myself around with some great results. One of the possibilities is being a resident engineer for Juniper which would be a real feather in my cap not to mention one of my favorite vendors. The entire interview process has been over the telephone. I've gone through some extremely in-depth technical screening and tested above all the other candidates. The assignment would be a year gig with a city government in Florida as the Juniper consultant on the job. I'd help with the implementation and migration from another vendor to Juniper across their network and it's a small network compared to what I've managed before but something like a large campus environment. There may be a face to face meeting with the customer ahead of time which would solve my problem because obviously at that point they would know my disability and it would remove the shock factor. However, there's a possibility that I could get an offer never having met anyone in person. QUESTION Question is, what if anything should I say about my disability? Clearly I have the technical chops for the job but do I really want to sign an offer letter and just show up at the job site? On the flip side, it shouldn't matter and I know the legal arguments but many people just aren't open minded. What would you all do and how would you approach this? I have a 20 year work history but never been hired or interviewed exclusively over the phone before. Should I bring it up? Keep in mind I'd have to relocate for this job so I'd rather not show up on day 1 and get shown the door.:) What do you think? Thanks Scott
My opinion is that you really have very little to lose by telling them in advance. If they don't want you, it doesn't matter whether they reject you during the hiring process or after you are hired. I suppose it may be easier to prove discrimination if they got rid of you after you were actually hired but I don't think that is a practical consideration. I think it's too hard to prove discrimination and too much of a hassle even in the best case. On the other hand, since the job is with a city government, they might have affirmative action criteria. At the very least, they'd have lawyers to advise them that they can't just show you the door for showing up blind. I've talked to employers about this and, first of all, a lot of them aren't aware of the law. They think they can hire or fire anybody they like. So they fire you and it's up to you to find a lawyer and to prove discrimination. That seems unlikely with a city government. Still, you could end up with a boss who resents having to work with a disabled person. It doesn't really matter if it's ridiculous. People are crazy. Every little thing you do wrong is going to be blamed on your disability. I think it is better to know in advance. Secondly, a lot of employers say they'd never trust anyone who "hid" their disability during the hiring process. This is unfair, of course, but there isn't much you can do about it. Personally, I think it's a cover for not wanting to hire a disable person. I think people who blame a disable person for hiding their disability would never hire a disabled person anyway. The good news is that I think most people are open minded abut hiring blind people especially in technical fields. I have heard a bzillion horror stories but I still have to believe the bigots are well in the minority. My point is that you really have nothing to lose by finding out if your employer is open minded ahead of time. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Blindness and customer consulting question Here's a non technical but job related question I'd love to get input on. BACKGROUND I am in the job search again. I'm employed but looking for a change so I've been out there shopping myself around with some great results. One of the possibilities is being a resident engineer for Juniper which would be a real feather in my cap not to mention one of my favorite vendors. The entire interview process has been over the telephone. I've gone through some extremely in-depth technical screening and tested above all the other candidates. The assignment would be a year gig with a city government in Florida as the Juniper consultant on the job. I'd help with the implementation and migration from another vendor to Juniper across their network and it's a small network compared to what I've managed before but something like a large campus environment. There may be a face to face meeting with the customer ahead of time which would solve my problem because obviously at that point they would know my disability and it would remove the shock factor. However, there's a possibility that I could get an offer never having met anyone in person. QUESTION Question is, what if anything should I say about my disability? Clearly I have the technical chops for the job but do I really want to sign an offer letter and just show up at the job site? On the flip side, it shouldn't matter and I know the legal arguments but many people just aren't open minded. What would you all do and how would you approach this? I have a 20 year work history but never been hired or interviewed exclusively over the phone before. Should I bring it up? Keep in mind I'd have to relocate for this job so I'd rather not show up on day 1 and get shown the door.:) What do you think? Thanks Scott _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Good points. I've only been outright discriminated against once by Sprint of all things. They actually told me they wouldn't hire me because of my disability. I'm not the legal action type though. My experience has been it's just easier to move on to the next one. At least in the technical fields, there are to many jobs out there to get hung up on multi year court actions and all the stress that goes with it. I also think that other fields have a higher level of discrimination. My experience has been more people find the technical challenges interesting and as long as you carry your weight who cares. I think the best plan of action is to bring it up with the hiring manager during the offer phase.
I really appreciate your input.
On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:05 PM, "John G. Heim"
My opinion is that you really have very little to lose by telling them in advance. If they don't want you, it doesn't matter whether they reject you during the hiring process or after you are hired. I suppose it may be easier to prove discrimination if they got rid of you after you were actually hired but I don't think that is a practical consideration. I think it's too hard to prove discrimination and too much of a hassle even in the best case.
On the other hand, since the job is with a city government, they might have affirmative action criteria. At the very least, they'd have lawyers to advise them that they can't just show you the door for showing up blind. I've talked to employers about this and, first of all, a lot of them aren't aware of the law. They think they can hire or fire anybody they like. So they fire you and it's up to you to find a lawyer and to prove discrimination. That seems unlikely with a city government. Still, you could end up with a boss who resents having to work with a disabled person. It doesn't really matter if it's ridiculous. People are crazy. Every little thing you do wrong is going to be blamed on your disability. I think it is better to know in advance.
Secondly, a lot of employers say they'd never trust anyone who "hid" their disability during the hiring process. This is unfair, of course, but there isn't much you can do about it. Personally, I think it's a cover for not wanting to hire a disable person. I think people who blame a disable person for hiding their disability would never hire a disabled person anyway.
The good news is that I think most people are open minded abut hiring blind people especially in technical fields. I have heard a bzillion horror stories but I still have to believe the bigots are well in the minority. My point is that you really have nothing to lose by finding out if your employer is open minded ahead of time.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Blindness and customer consulting question
Here's a non technical but job related question I'd love to get input on.
BACKGROUND I am in the job search again. I'm employed but looking for a change so I've been out there shopping myself around with some great results. One of the possibilities is being a resident engineer for Juniper which would be a real feather in my cap not to mention one of my favorite vendors. The entire interview process has been over the telephone. I've gone through some extremely in-depth technical screening and tested above all the other candidates. The assignment would be a year gig with a city government in Florida as the Juniper consultant on the job. I'd help with the implementation and migration from another vendor to Juniper across their network and it's a small network compared to what I've managed before but something like a large campus environment. There may be a face to face meeting with the customer ahead of time which would solve my problem because obviously at that point they would know my disability and it would remove the shock factor. However, there's a possibility that I could get an offer never having met anyone in person.
QUESTION Question is, what if anything should I say about my disability? Clearly I have the technical chops for the job but do I really want to sign an offer letter and just show up at the job site? On the flip side, it shouldn't matter and I know the legal arguments but many people just aren't open minded. What would you all do and how would you approach this? I have a 20 year work history but never been hired or interviewed exclusively over the phone before. Should I bring it up? Keep in mind I'd have to relocate for this job so I'd rather not show up on day 1 and get shown the door.:) What do you think?
Thanks Scott
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
Yeah, it is probably easy for people like us to say this kind of thing. But
I agree that in technical fields, most people don't care if you're blind as
long as you can pull your weight. Plus, anybody who does care is probably
too stupid to be a decent manager anyway. Do you really want to work for
somebody dumb enough to care that you are blind? I get the sense that you
are like me. When I'm discriminated against, I just say, "Pffth, your loss."
But it's easy for me I've never been unemployed.
I would never dismiss the seriousness of the problem of discrimination
against the blind. I think it is a huge problem. I personally have been
discriminated against many times sometimes quite overtly. But like I said, I
just figured it was their loss.
I got a little chuckle on that other list when I saw that someone told you
not to be ashamed of your disability. My reaction would have been, "Okay,
pops. I'll try."
-----Original Message-----
From: Blind-sysadmins
[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott
Granados
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 2:16 PM
To: Blind sysadmins list
Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Blindness and customer consulting question
Good points. I've only been outright discriminated against once by Sprint
of all things. They actually told me they wouldn't hire me because of my
disability. I'm not the legal action type though. My experience has been
it's just easier to move on to the next one. At least in the technical
fields, there are to many jobs out there to get hung up on multi year court
actions and all the stress that goes with it. I also think that other
fields have a higher level of discrimination. My experience has been more
people find the technical challenges interesting and as long as you carry
your weight who cares. I think the best plan of action is to bring it up
with the hiring manager during the offer phase.
I really appreciate your input.
On Dec 6, 2012, at 3:05 PM, "John G. Heim"
My opinion is that you really have very little to lose by telling them in advance. If they don't want you, it doesn't matter whether they reject you during the hiring process or after you are hired. I suppose it may be easier to prove discrimination if they got rid of you after you were actually hired but I don't think that is a practical consideration. I think it's too hard to prove discrimination and too much of a hassle even in the best case.
On the other hand, since the job is with a city government, they might have affirmative action criteria. At the very least, they'd have lawyers to advise them that they can't just show you the door for showing up blind. I've talked to employers about this and, first of all, a lot of them aren't aware of the law. They think they can hire or fire anybody they like. So they fire you and it's up to you to find a lawyer and to prove discrimination. That seems unlikely with a city government. Still, you could end up with a boss who resents having to work with a disabled person. It doesn't really matter if it's ridiculous. People are crazy. Every little thing you do wrong is going to be blamed on your disability. I think it is better to know in advance.
Secondly, a lot of employers say they'd never trust anyone who "hid" their disability during the hiring process. This is unfair, of course, but there isn't much you can do about it. Personally, I think it's a cover for not wanting to hire a disable person. I think people who blame a disable person for hiding their disability would never hire a disabled person anyway.
The good news is that I think most people are open minded abut hiring blind people especially in technical fields. I have heard a bzillion horror stories but I still have to believe the bigots are well in the minority. My point is that you really have nothing to lose by finding out if your employer is open minded ahead of time.
-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Blindness and customer consulting question
Here's a non technical but job related question I'd love to get input on.
BACKGROUND I am in the job search again. I'm employed but looking for a change
so I've been out there shopping myself around with some great results. One of the possibilities is being a resident engineer for Juniper which would be a real feather in my cap not to mention one of my favorite vendors. The entire interview process has been over the telephone. I've gone through some extremely in-depth technical screening and tested above all the other candidates. The assignment would be a year gig with a city government in Florida as the Juniper consultant on the job. I'd help with the implementation and migration from another vendor to Juniper across their network and it's a small network compared to what I've managed before but something like a large campus environment. There may be a face to face meeting with the customer ahead of time which would solve my problem because obviously at that point they would know my disability and it would remove the shock factor. However, there's a possibility that I could get an offer never having met anyone in person.
QUESTION Question is, what if anything should I say about my disability? Clearly I have the technical chops for the job but do I really want to sign an offer letter and just show up at the job site? On the flip side, it shouldn't matter and I know the legal arguments but many people just aren't open minded. What would you all do and how would you approach this? I have a 20 year work history but never been hired or interviewed exclusively over the phone before. Should I bring it up? Keep in mind I'd have to relocate for this job so I'd rather not show up on day 1 and get shown the door.:) What do you think?
Thanks Scott
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
I think the best idea would be to act like any other person.
So, before you are accepted don't tell them about your disability if it is not necessary and if they don't ask.
Tell them about your disability before going there in order to not be rejected in the first day, but only as something auxiliary, not as something important for your job.
For example, after you are accepted (if you will be accepted without a face-to-face interview), ask them for some more details about their building, about its placement, or who you should contact, or where is the office X, adding that you have a sight problem and you want to find it as easy as possible.
I found that it is usually less shocking to not tell them "yes, I am totally blind" right at the beginning, but to tell them about a sight problem, and if the discussion continues tell them the full story, but this depends on the real situation.
But if you are accepted without a face-to-face interview and don't want to go there for nothing, make sure that they understand what you are saying and not just be happy that they seemed to not have any problem with a person that has sight problems, because maybe they weren't listening too carefully and they will be still shocked that you have those problems when you'll be there.
The final idea is that you can't cheat them. So just don't shock them, but don't hide too much your disability because if they reject you right away means that they are the type of people that don't want to work with a disabled person anyway.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Granados"
Here's a non technical but job related question I'd love to get input on.
BACKGROUND I am in the job search again. I'm employed but looking for a change so I've been out there shopping myself around with some great results. One of the possibilities is being a resident engineer for Juniper which would be a real feather in my cap not to mention one of my favorite vendors. The entire interview process has been over the telephone. I've gone through some extremely in-depth technical screening and tested above all the other candidates. The assignment would be a year gig with a city government in Florida as the Juniper consultant on the job. I'd help with the implementation and migration from another vendor to Juniper across their network and it's a small network compared to what I've managed before but something like a large campus environment. There may be a face to face meeting with the customer ahead of time which would solve my problem because obviously at that point they would know my disability and it would remove the shock factor. However, there's a possibility that I could get an offer never having met anyone in person.
QUESTION Question is, what if anything should I say about my disability? Clearly I have the technical chops for the job but do I really want to sign an offer letter and just show up at the job site? On the flip side, it shouldn't matter and I know the legal arguments but many people just aren't open minded. What would you all do and how would you approach this? I have a 20 year work history but never been hired or interviewed exclusively over the phone before. Should I bring it up? Keep in mind I'd have to relocate for this job so I'd rather not show up on day 1 and get shown the door.:) What do you think?
Thanks Scott
_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins
participants (3)
-
John G. Heim -
Octavian Rasnita -
Scott Granados