Losing focus in terminal all the time
Hi. Latest JFW and Windows 11 builds on multiple machines, I lose speech output in the terminal or command prompt when navigating to and from the window. What I mean by this is I am not hearing the output of commands or what I am typing into the window. This is really starting to stress me out now and I can't believe I am the only person experiencing it. Its been happening since the beginning of the year since a Windows update I think. Any suggestions? Thanks. Andrew.
Have you tried a disk cleanup?
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
I'm not sure what that would achieve George. A focus issue would suggest
that the screen readers themselves are not keeping focus in the command
prompt. I can't say I've had that experience though.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: george@techno-vision.co.uk
Hi.
Looking at this a bit more I am now wondering if this is because I have several of these command prompt windows open at one time and alt+tab between them.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt via Blind-sysadmins
All,
I run into this at work all the time with Windows 11. I contacted Microsoft DAD and learned that there is several issues with Terminal. In order to have command line access like we are use to, I have to do a search in the start menu and either choose Command Prompt or Powershell and run as administrator or it will not function correctly. I shared this with VFO and heard nothing back.
Best,
Billy L. Irwin
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
Oh I always run powershell or command in admin mode.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Irwin
Hi.
Ok thanks for this. I think there is an option you can change in the shortcut to make it run in admin mode by default. I am not using admin mode right now so will give it a try. Glad its not just me having this issue, thought I was going mad for a bit there.
Thanks.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt via Blind-sysadmins
Hi.
Running terminal as admin is fixing this for me. Shame I can't do that on my clients laptop as I don't have admin privs. Is this any better in NVDA? I didn't think so but may try and persevere with it if it means I can get this working without admin privs.
Thanks.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Irwin
Hi, Andrew,
I've not tried that. I've used a single instance of Terminal with multiple tabs but not multiple instances of Terminal. Will you try using a single Terminal instance to see if that eliminates the problem? I'm not saying that we won't fix a problem experienced only when multiple Terminal instances are open, but just trying to figure out if that's a key to the issue.
Not sure why running Terminal as admin would change anything about this.
--Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
This happened me in command prompt today.
Cached MSAA Focus Info
# Ancestor Count 2
level 2, Role 0xfffffff6, Window 306fa, ObjectId 0x9b8ebed8, Rect 0/0, 5120/1392, UIA ID TaskSwitchingWindow
level 1, Name Running apps, Role 0x21, Window 306fa, ObjectId 0x893b1136, Rect 1650/465, 3472/928, Class ListView, UIA ID SwitchItemListControl
level 0, Name C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe, Role 0x22, State 0x100004, Window 306fa, ObjectId 0xd92246a9, Rect 2864/521, 3416/872, Class ListViewItem, FileName
Explorer.EXE
Close
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Gordon
This looks like JAWS didn't detect that you moved back to Terminal. From this data, JAWS still thinks that the TaskSwitch window is active. I've never seen this. I assume that you just use Alt+Tab to switch, correct? Any other wrinkles.
For others experiencing this, would be great to get similar output from you to see if the TaskSwitch window is at the root of the problem.
Instructions below for easier reference:
The next time this happens, will you try the following:
Turn on JAWS HomeRow/Utility Mode with JAWSKey+Windows+NumPad minus. It's a toggle, so pressing it a second time will turn it off. While in HomeRow mode, press Control+F12. This will dump a bunch of information about the control with focus and its ancestors to the virtual buffer. Escape will get you back to Terminal. If things are failing in the way I suspect, this info will be slightly different in the failure case than when things are working.
Thanks
--Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh
Correct. I am using standard alt tab. But I rarely listen to what Jaws is saying. I quickly hit alt tab to toggle between windows.
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Gordon
Hi.
Just wondering if there has been any progress in this issue? I'm still receiving this on latest JFW and Win11 build. Thanks to people on this list I can fix it now by alt+tabbing back and forth, but its still happening every day for me and is very annoying.
Thanks.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh
Hi Andrew,
I am too still having the same issue. Side question, using Putty or Secure CRT, is there some settings that I could change to make them more efficient with JAWS? Everything I have found is way out dated.
Thanks,
Billy
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
Hi, Everyone,
I finally found a Freedom Scientific developer colleague who is seeing this same problem. This will help a lot, since I've not been able to replicate the problem myself. We will be working together over the next couple of weeks in an attempt to get this resolved.
I'm sorry this has dragged out as long as it has, and will report back when I know something more.
--Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Irwin
Good morning Glenn,
Did you get to the bottom of this?
I'm using the latest version of Windows 11, terminal and Jaws 2024 and I continue to encounter this very regularly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Gordon
Hi.
That's interesting. On my systems here the problem seems to have gone away, the machines have been freshly installed with Win 11 23H2 and JFW 2024, but I think it resolved before then. This is with Command Prompt mainly but do use Terminal from time to time as well.
I have issues with my work machine and Beyond Trust which are still being worked through, but this issue seems to have resolved for me.
Thanks.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh via Blind-sysadmins
I am also encountering this problem frequently, using same software as
mentioned below.
-----Original Message-----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh via Blind-sysadmins
Hi,
Sad to hear that this hasn't been completely resolved, though it's good to hear that at least it's working better for Andrew. Any rhyme or reason to when you see the problem? i.e., is it only when you alt+tab, when you first launch, when you're switching between tabs within the terminal itself? Also, do you have multiple terminal windows open and switching between them when it happens? And finally, which Windows 11 build not that is? I'm grasping at straws since those internally who were seeing the issue are not seeing it anymore.
I'm actually off on vacation till January 8, so responses will be sporadic till I'm back but will dig into this further in the new year.
--Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nestrud via Blind-sysadmins
Billy,
What issues are you experiencing?
For Secure CRT, I have seen accessibility-related improvements in their
release notes, so they may be receptive to suggestions or bug reports.
-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Irwin
Hi. Same just happened to me, was typing in the command prompt and after checking something and alt+tabbing back it didn't echo the commands or speak the output. Here is the info you requested: Cached MSAA Focus Info # Ancestor Count 2 level 2, Name *resource.kek.tf - Notepad, Role 0x9, State 0x140000, Window 210482, Rect 156/156, 1116/641, Class Notepad level 1, Role 0x9, State 0x100000, Window 90e0c, Rect 162/231, 1110/603, Class NotepadTextBox level 0, Name Text editor, Role 0xf, State 0x100004, Value data "[redacted the full file text] , Window b0dec, Modes 0x6, FileName Notepad.exe, AltConfig Microsoft.WindowsNotepad_8wekyb3d8bbwe!App Close The Command Prompt window isn't even shown in that list is it. Andrew.
I've all too often found when I've had problems - and usually as a last
resort - that all sort of garbage appears in Windows *.tmp files which,
among other things, a disc cleanup tidies up.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt via Blind-sysadmins
Hi.
My work machine gets wiped on a regular basis as I am working for security cleared clients. This is happening on my home machine as well so I don't believe anything like temp files etc is the issue.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: george@techno-vision.co.uk
Hi Andrew,
Can you give me a way to duplicate the problem?
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
Happening to me as well.
I usually need to alt tab away and back again before speech returns.
I don't know if it's also happening with NVDA.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
Hi, Darragh and Andrew,
Sorry to hear that you're having issues with this. If I were seeing it, I'd go absolutely nuts, and I'll do my best to help get it resolved.
Does it happen seemingly out of nowhere where the echoing of command output works and then suddenly stops, or does something seem to provoke it? When it happens, does doing a SayLine on the line you're editing work or is that broken too? I ask because my suspicion is that something like an incoming email notification is briefly stealing focus away from Terminal and then putting it back, but JAWS no longer thinks that focus is in an area where we should automatically speak newly written text. Darragh's comment that Alt+Tabbing away and back temporarily resolves the issue is in line with this theory.
The next time this happens, will you try the following:
Turn on JAWS HomeRow/Utility Mode with JAWSKey+Windows+NumPad minus. It's a toggle, so pressing it a second time will turn it off. While in HomeRow mode, press Control+F12. This will dump a bunch of information about the control with focus and its ancestors to the virtual buffer. Escape will get you back to Terminal. If things are failing in the way I suspect, this info will be slightly different in the failure case than when things are working.
Feel free to send me the output for inspection. And by all means, let me know anything else that you think might figure into the problem.
Thanks
--Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh
Hi.
For me this isn't resolved by alt+tab, though running Terminal as an admin is fixing it for me. I will try the suggestions you have written here as a desperation attempt because this is so bad.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Glen Gordon
Andrew,
I sometimes need to alt tab back a few times for Jaws to behave normally in the terminal window. It usually doesn't happen the first time I return to it.
I'll follow Glen's suggestions tomorrow. I know it won't take me long to reproduce the problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
Hi.
Yeah actually I did likewise on my machine today and a couple of alt+tabs are unsticking it. I have forwarded his email to my work machine so I can try that, as I was fairly busy today on my locked down work system which they've just added several Internet blocks to so I couldn't grab the details.
Re contacting the disability helpdesk, I didn't actually do that. I like to try and get other people to reproduce the problem before I report it, and I suspected others may have had similar issues as I wasn't doing anything special with the terminal window. I really should have got my arse into gear before and done something, I think I only wined here again the other day because it was annoying me a lot. I can potentially look into archives on this list or my Twitter/Mastodon postings and find out when this first happened.
Andrew.
-----Original Message-----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh
All,
One thing I noticed for me is that I can hit the num lock key twice and it will go back to reading the screen output. For example if I am doing a ping, it will loose focus until I hit the num lock on and off before it will read the scrolling output. The other main issue that I spoke to the regular MS Disability Answer Desk was that you can't use the original "Alt + Space" combo to get to the Edit Menu to do any copy and pasting. I can do a paste if I perform a right click via the number pad. No way that I have found from MS or VFO to select all and copy the output.
Hope this helps,
Billy
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Hodgson
participants (7)
-
Andrew Hodgson -
Billy Irwin -
Chris Nestrud -
Darragh Ó Héiligh -
george＠techno-vision.co.uk -
Glen Gordon -
Steve Nutt