Hi, Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console apps? E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus? Cheers, Ben. On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/10/11/whats-new-in-windows.... We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

So I actually gave it a try and I have to say that (as a non screen reader user), it exceeded my (and Ryan's) expectations. Ryan can provide better feedback than me, but so far it looks promising. I would actually love if some of you would give it a try especially on WSL (the Windows Subsystem for Linux): we tried vi, and it worked pretty well (despite reading V-I as "six"), and actually even Midnight Commander was usable without the need of using special screen reader input (i.e. using the standard mc keys). Narrator seems to be tracking the cursor quite faithfully as well: to exit MC you hit F10, which opens the textual correspondent of a pop-up in the middle of the screen. Narrator realized that and read the content of the "window" right away. I won't take any credit for this other than for being a pain in the neck of the Console team who did all the work (one of these days I know I'll get a restraining order from them...). I really would love to hear your feedback though and I'm sure https://twitter.com/richturn_ms would be more than interested as well (and the one to send praise and criticism to). Gianugo -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:07 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Gianugo Rabellino Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console I'm not sure if the UIA integration is that complete. I don't see how, without a higher level API, the console will be able to understand that what's presented on the screen is actually a menu. I'm not sure even if libraries such as (n)curses provide that semantic support. But I'll ask. Gianugo ________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:34:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console Hi, Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console apps? E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus? Cheers, Ben. On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.microsoft.com%2Fcommandline%2F2017%2F10%2F11%2Fwhats-new-in-windows-console-in-windows-10-fall-creators-update%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=NzSD22GheEQhXr8kQD5LmbTZuw8%2BAtrEMnGVclhFY0A%3D&reserved=0. We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists .hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo .rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988 bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=cCm%2FQq qSPGydW1OXBHBEN9TS9BDBXL%2BSiQ%2BwOagDivw%3D&reserved=0

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Hi: Just to second what Gianugo said, as a screen reader user who has used Windows screen readers on the command prompt, there is definite improvement here. Some full screen applications can be a bit chatty still but while we were playing with this Narrator was able to keep up with what we were doing and we could easily review command output using the Narrator items reading commands. Please do give feedback so we can pass it on, especially those who use the command lines very frequently. I'm going to go ahead and answer because I know someone will ask, at this point this only works with Win32 console applications like the command prompt, if you use a program like PuTTY with Narrator you probably won't see these improvements. However as Gianugo mentioned this does work with the WSL environment and applications running within. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 12:56 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console That's great news. Thanks for keeping us up to date & everything you're doing in this area. On 10/17/17, Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

So I actually gave it a try and I have to say that (as a non screen reader user), it exceeded my (and Ryan's) expectations. Ryan can provide better feedback than me, but so far it looks promising. I would actually love if some of you would give it a try especially on WSL (the Windows Subsystem for Linux): we tried vi, and it worked pretty well (despite reading V-I as "six"), and actually even Midnight Commander was usable without the need of using special screen reader input (i.e. using the standard mc keys). Narrator seems to be tracking the cursor quite faithfully as well: to exit MC you hit F10, which opens the textual correspondent of a pop-up in the middle of the screen. Narrator realized that and read the content of the "window" right away.

I won't take any credit for this other than for being a pain in the neck of the Console team who did all the work (one of these days I know I'll get a restraining order from them...). I really would love to hear your feedback though and I'm sure https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Frichturn_ms&data=02%7C01%7Cryshugar%40microsoft.com%7C0be461145b9f42dea44d08d515993030%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636438670039790793&sdata=3XOB2XlLWJXB0Zb%2F441VFy%2F8MZJF1u%2FKT9YeH4aRUpA%3D&reserved=0 would be more than interested as well (and the one to send praise and criticism to).

Gianugo

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:07 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Gianugo Rabellino Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console

I'm not sure if the UIA integration is that complete. I don't see how, without a higher level API, the console will be able to understand that what's presented on the screen is actually a menu. I'm not sure even if libraries such as (n)curses provide that semantic support. But I'll ask.

Gianugo ________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:34:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console

Hi,

Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console apps? E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus?

Cheers, Ben.

On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

...

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.microsoft.com%2Fcommandline%2F2017%2F10%2F11%2Fwhats-new-in-windows-console-in-windows-10-fall-creators-update%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=NzSD22GheEQhXr8kQD5LmbTZuw8%2BAtrEMnGVclhFY0A%3D&reserved=0. We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists .hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo .rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988 bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=cCm%2FQq qSPGydW1OXBHBEN9TS9BDBXL%2BSiQ%2BwOagDivw%3D&reserved=0

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_______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=cCm%2FQqqSPGydW1OXBHBEN9TS9BDBXL%2BSiQ%2BwOagDivw%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7C0c9dc1f01bc94bbe615708d514217a1b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636437056385798895&sdata=2hjHod%2FcOeuNHjDwRIJPrU0Y5G2Cymtz%2FRoXap4NeYc%3D&reserved=0

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Build 1709. -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of mhysnm1964@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:00 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console What version of Windows is these improvements meant to be in? -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Wednesday, 18 October 2017 8:11 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console Hi: Just to second what Gianugo said, as a screen reader user who has used Windows screen readers on the command prompt, there is definite improvement here. Some full screen applications can be a bit chatty still but while we were playing with this Narrator was able to keep up with what we were doing and we could easily review command output using the Narrator items reading commands. Please do give feedback so we can pass it on, especially those who use the command lines very frequently. I'm going to go ahead and answer because I know someone will ask, at this point this only works with Win32 console applications like the command prompt, if you use a program like PuTTY with Narrator you probably won't see these improvements. However as Gianugo mentioned this does work with the WSL environment and applications running within. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 12:56 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console That's great news. Thanks for keeping us up to date & everything you're doing in this area. On 10/17/17, Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

So I actually gave it a try and I have to say that (as a non screen reader user), it exceeded my (and Ryan's) expectations. Ryan can provide better feedback than me, but so far it looks promising. I would actually love if some of you would give it a try especially on WSL (the Windows Subsystem for Linux): we tried vi, and it worked pretty well (despite reading V-I as "six"), and actually even Midnight Commander was usable without the need of using special screen reader input (i.e. using the standard mc keys). Narrator seems to be tracking the cursor quite faithfully as well: to exit MC you hit F10, which opens the textual correspondent of a pop-up in the middle of the screen. Narrator realized that and read the content of the "window" right away.

I won't take any credit for this other than for being a pain in the neck of the Console team who did all the work (one of these days I know I'll get a restraining order from them...). I really would love to hear your feedback though and I'm sure

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com %2Frichturn_ms&data=02%7C01%7Cryshugar%40microsoft.com%7C0be461145b9f42dea44 d08d515993030%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63643867003979079 3&sdata=3XOB2XlLWJXB0Zb%2F441VFy%2F8MZJF1u%2FKT9YeH4aRUpA%3D&reserved=0 would be more than interested as well (and the one to send praise and criticism to).

Gianugo

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:07 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Gianugo Rabellino Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console

I'm not sure if the UIA integration is that complete. I don't see how, without a higher level API, the console will be able to understand that what's presented on the screen is actually a menu. I'm not sure even if libraries such as (n)curses provide that semantic support. But

I'll ask.

Gianugo ________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:34:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console

Hi,

Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console

apps?

E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus?

Cheers, Ben.

On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

...

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog s.ms dn.microsoft.com%2Fcommandline%2F2017%2F10%2F11%2Fwhats-new-in-windows-conso le-in-windows-10-fall-creators-update%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40 microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd 011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=NzSD22GheEQhXr8kQD5LmbTZuw8%2BAtr EMnGVclhFY0A%3D&reserved=0. We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist s .hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianug o .rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f98 8 bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=cCm%2FQ q qSPGydW1OXBHBEN9TS9BDBXL%2BSiQ%2BwOagDivw%3D&reserved=0

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That's great news. Thanks for keeping us up to date & everything you're doing in this area. On 10/17/17, Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins wrote:

So I actually gave it a try and I have to say that (as a non screen reader user), it exceeded my (and Ryan's) expectations. Ryan can provide better feedback than me, but so far it looks promising. I would actually love if some of you would give it a try especially on WSL (the Windows Subsystem for Linux): we tried vi, and it worked pretty well (despite reading V-I as "six"), and actually even Midnight Commander was usable without the need of using special screen reader input (i.e. using the standard mc keys). Narrator seems to be tracking the cursor quite faithfully as well: to exit MC you hit F10, which opens the textual correspondent of a pop-up in the middle of the screen. Narrator realized that and read the content of the "window" right away.

I won't take any credit for this other than for being a pain in the neck of the Console team who did all the work (one of these days I know I'll get a restraining order from them...). I really would love to hear your feedback though and I'm sure https://twitter.com/richturn_ms would be more than interested as well (and the one to send praise and criticism to).

Gianugo

-----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Gianugo Rabellino via Blind-sysadmins Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:07 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Gianugo Rabellino Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console

I'm not sure if the UIA integration is that complete. I don't see how, without a higher level API, the console will be able to understand that what's presented on the screen is actually a menu. I'm not sure even if libraries such as (n)curses provide that semantic support. But I'll ask.

Gianugo ________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:34:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console

Hi,

Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console apps? E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus?

Cheers, Ben.

On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

...

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.microsoft.com%2Fcommandline%2F2017%2F10%2F11%2Fwhats-new-in-windows-console-in-windows-10-fall-creators-update%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=NzSD22GheEQhXr8kQD5LmbTZuw8%2BAtrEMnGVclhFY0A%3D&reserved=0. We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists .hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo .rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988 bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=cCm%2FQq qSPGydW1OXBHBEN9TS9BDBXL%2BSiQ%2BwOagDivw%3D&reserved=0

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I'm not sure if the UIA integration is that complete. I don't see how, without a higher level API, the console will be able to understand that what's presented on the screen is actually a menu. I'm not sure even if libraries such as (n)curses provide that semantic support. But I'll ask. Gianugo ________________________________ From: Blind-sysadmins on behalf of Ben Mustill-Rose Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:34:12 AM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Accessibility improvements in the Windows console Hi, Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console apps? E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus? Cheers, Ben. On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.microsoft.com%2Fcommandline%2F2017%2F10%2F11%2Fwhats-new-in-windows-console-in-windows-10-fall-creators-update%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=NzSD22GheEQhXr8kQD5LmbTZuw8%2BAtrEMnGVclhFY0A%3D&reserved=0. We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.hodgsonfamily.org%2Flistinfo%2Fblind-sysadmins&data=02%7C01%7Cgianugo.rabellino%40microsoft.com%7Ca179dec01e564f73452208d513eaacfb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636436821003196300&sdata=cCm%2FQqqSPGydW1OXBHBEN9TS9BDBXL%2BSiQ%2BwOagDivw%3D&reserved=0

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Hi, Do you know if Narrator will track focus changes correctly in console apps? E.G. if I'm being asked to select an option from a menu using the arrow keys will Narrator automaticly read the option in focus? Cheers, Ben. On 10/14/17, Steve Matzura wrote:

This sounds quite good. I hope it lives up to and maybe even exceeds the demo.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:57 +0000, you wrote:

...

Since quite a few of you use the Windows console, I thought I'd bring to your attention some major accessibility improvement in the terminal/console experience coming in the next Fall Creators Update. You can find more details and a short demo at https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/10/11/whats-new-in-windows.... We would love to hear your feedback on the new integration with Narrator (and other screen readers): I, for one, am excited to see the new architectural changes that will hopefully pave the way for better integration going forward.

Gianugo _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins@lists.hodgsonfamily.org https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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