Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk? John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently. I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market. Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product. It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
The thing I find most interesting about all this is the Plextalk has been around longer than the Book prot plus. I would've thought that it would've had BRL and BRF support prior to Larry Scucon negotiating the license agreement to go with getting the hardware he is using now. And it could be the fact that they both use the same hardware that separates the Plextalk from the Stream. Right now FS has the Plextalk for $275 on what seems to be a never-ending promotion. But if braille file support were important to you, which device would you go with? APH is going to get the business from some people even though they are going to spend more on a portable player because of that one reason alone. On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently. I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market. Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product. It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
You can read brf files on the plextalk pocket if you use a program like win bt to back translate them to txt. I bought the plextalk pocket because of it's $275.00 price. I saved money over the book port plus. -----Original Message----- From: kb7uengene Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 7:50 AM To: Plextalk User Discussion List Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? The thing I find most interesting about all this is the Plextalk has been around longer than the Book prot plus. I would've thought that it would've had BRL and BRF support prior to Larry Scucon negotiating the license agreement to go with getting the hardware he is using now. And it could be the fact that they both use the same hardware that separates the Plextalk from the Stream. Right now FS has the Plextalk for $275 on what seems to be a never-ending promotion. But if braille file support were important to you, which device would you go with? APH is going to get the business from some people even though they are going to spend more on a portable player because of that one reason alone. On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently. I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market. Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product. It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
I did the same thing because of the price, but also because I wanted it in black with a white keys, which provided me with greater contrast. Is there content in braille that I'm not gonna find anywhere else? If so, where do I get this back translator? On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:55 AM, "Russ Kiehne" <russ94577@gmail.com> wrote: You can read brf files on the plextalk pocket if you use a program like win bt to back translate them to txt. I bought the plextalk pocket because of it's $275.00 price. I saved money over the book port plus. -----Original Message----- From: kb7uengene Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 7:50 AM To: Plextalk User Discussion List Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? The thing I find most interesting about all this is the Plextalk has been around longer than the Book prot plus. I would've thought that it would've had BRL and BRF support prior to Larry Scucon negotiating the license agreement to go with getting the hardware he is using now. And it could be the fact that they both use the same hardware that separates the Plextalk from the Stream. Right now FS has the Plextalk for $275 on what seems to be a never-ending promotion. But if braille file support were important to you, which device would you go with? APH is going to get the business from some people even though they are going to spend more on a portable player because of that one reason alone. On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently. I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market. Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product. It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
You can get a lot of brf content from BARD. I don't have the link on hand where you can download win bt. -----Original Message----- From: kb7uengene Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 9:30 AM To: Plextalk User Discussion List Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? I did the same thing because of the price, but also because I wanted it in black with a white keys, which provided me with greater contrast. Is there content in braille that I'm not gonna find anywhere else? If so, where do I get this back translator? On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:55 AM, "Russ Kiehne" <russ94577@gmail.com> wrote: You can read brf files on the plextalk pocket if you use a program like win bt to back translate them to txt. I bought the plextalk pocket because of it's $275.00 price. I saved money over the book port plus. -----Original Message----- From: kb7uengene Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 7:50 AM To: Plextalk User Discussion List Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? The thing I find most interesting about all this is the Plextalk has been around longer than the Book prot plus. I would've thought that it would've had BRL and BRF support prior to Larry Scucon negotiating the license agreement to go with getting the hardware he is using now. And it could be the fact that they both use the same hardware that separates the Plextalk from the Stream. Right now FS has the Plextalk for $275 on what seems to be a never-ending promotion. But if braille file support were important to you, which device would you go with? APH is going to get the business from some people even though they are going to spend more on a portable player because of that one reason alone. On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently. I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market. Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product. It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
What's really weird is that in the built in manual for Plextalk Pocket, it even says right there that it can play .brf files! There's no disclaimer about us poor U.S. citizens being shut out of this format at all. I wonder where things went wrong. Anyhow, I have an old .brf2txt program that came from NFB originally I think. It was designed primarily to convert text files to brf but it works both ways. There's probably a more up to date version around somewhere. BTW, I've noticed that the Victor Stream can't read .brf files directly either but it has a built in translator program. When you first open a .brf file, you hear it say "Converting" and after a few seconds, reading starts. Roger On 7/6/2013 9:50 AM, kb7uengene wrote:
The thing I find most interesting about all this is the Plextalk has been around longer than the Book prot plus. I would've thought that it would've had BRL and BRF support prior to Larry Scucon negotiating the license agreement to go with getting the hardware he is using now. And it could be the fact that they both use the same hardware that separates the Plextalk from the Stream. Right now FS has the Plextalk for $275 on what seems to be a never-ending promotion. But if braille file support were important to you, which device would you go with? APH is going to get the business from some people even though they are going to spend more on a portable player because of that one reason alone.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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Win bt is the updated version. It works with windows. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Stewart Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 10:11 AM To: Plextalk User Discussion List Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? What's really weird is that in the built in manual for Plextalk Pocket, it even says right there that it can play .brf files! There's no disclaimer about us poor U.S. citizens being shut out of this format at all. I wonder where things went wrong. Anyhow, I have an old .brf2txt program that came from NFB originally I think. It was designed primarily to convert text files to brf but it works both ways. There's probably a more up to date version around somewhere. BTW, I've noticed that the Victor Stream can't read .brf files directly either but it has a built in translator program. When you first open a .brf file, you hear it say "Converting" and after a few seconds, reading starts. Roger On 7/6/2013 9:50 AM, kb7uengene wrote:
The thing I find most interesting about all this is the Plextalk has been around longer than the Book prot plus. I would've thought that it would've had BRL and BRF support prior to Larry Scucon negotiating the license agreement to go with getting the hardware he is using now. And it could be the fact that they both use the same hardware that separates the Plextalk from the Stream. Right now FS has the Plextalk for $275 on what seems to be a never-ending promotion. But if braille file support were important to you, which device would you go with? APH is going to get the business from some people even though they are going to spend more on a portable player because of that one reason alone.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message ----- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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Why do you say that? On 07 Jul 2013, at 2:36, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote: Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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Because that is or was my opinion. Many good quality products get made, but sometimes because sufficient market demand does not exist for some they don't last very long, or they have to change ownership to recover losses for their original developers/investors. I'm commenting only on the economics angle with that observation. See, there are also several other competing products in this niche market of specialized digital sound recording devices for the blind and vision-impaired. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aidan" <aidan.smarttalk@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Why do you say that?
On 07 Jul 2013, at 2:36, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large. On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote: Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know. Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product. On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know. Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them. On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read them! I was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do it and not the Plex-talk?
John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" ____________________________________________________________ Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc
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I think it may be a question of availability of certain titles. However, I don't know for sure. Personally, I've never found it to be a limitation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read > them! I > was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices > do > it > and not the Plex-talk? > > John Jacques > Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC > "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" > ____________________________________________________________ > Want to place your ad here? > Advertise on United Online > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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Thanks for not taking offense at my question. I wasn't sure how some people would feel about it. I'm very much in support of braille literacy, even though I don't use it myself. On Jul 7, 2013, at 7:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: I think it may be a question of availability of certain titles. However, I don't know for sure. Personally, I've never found it to be a limitation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read > them! I > was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do > it > and not the Plex-talk? > > John Jacques > Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC > "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" > ____________________________________________________________ > Want to place your ad here? > Advertise on United Online > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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In my case, I tend to use braille to write though not to read. I only use braille reading for notes and labelling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Thanks for not taking offense at my question. I wasn't sure how some people would feel about it. I'm very much in support of braille literacy, even though I don't use it myself.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 7:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
I think it may be a question of availability of certain titles. However, I don't know for sure. Personally, I've never found it to be a limitation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a > certain > device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the > ability to do what it can. > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> > To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? > > >> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read >> them! I >> was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices >> do >> it >> and not the Plex-talk? >> >> John Jacques >> Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC >> "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Want to place your ad here? >> Advertise on United Online >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Plextalk mailing list >> Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk > > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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So it sounds like it's going to be when I'm using Bookshare, that I'm going to see the biggest possible need for BRL and BRF file formatted content. On Jul 8, 2013, at 7:28 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: In my case, I tend to use braille to write though not to read. I only use braille reading for notes and labelling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Thanks for not taking offense at my question. I wasn't sure how some people would feel about it. I'm very much in support of braille literacy, even though I don't use it myself.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 7:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
I think it may be a question of availability of certain titles. However, I don't know for sure. Personally, I've never found it to be a limitation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain > device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the > ability to do what it can. > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> > To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? > > >> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read >> them! I >> was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices do >> it >> and not the Plex-talk? >> >> John Jacques >> Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC >> "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Want to place your ad here? >> Advertise on United Online >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Plextalk mailing list >> Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk > > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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You don't need to use brf and brl with bookshare. Just download the daisy version. Where you will run into brf is on the bard site. -----Original Message----- From: kb7uengene Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 6:07 AM To: Plextalk User Discussion List Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? So it sounds like it's going to be when I'm using Bookshare, that I'm going to see the biggest possible need for BRL and BRF file formatted content. On Jul 8, 2013, at 7:28 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote: In my case, I tend to use braille to write though not to read. I only use braille reading for notes and labelling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Thanks for not taking offense at my question. I wasn't sure how some people would feel about it. I'm very much in support of braille literacy, even though I don't use it myself.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 7:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
I think it may be a question of availability of certain titles. However, I don't know for sure. Personally, I've never found it to be a limitation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a > certain > device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the > ability to do what it can. > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> > To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? > > >> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read >> them! I >> was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other devices >> do >> it >> and not the Plex-talk? >> >> John Jacques >> Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC >> "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Want to place your ad here? >> Advertise on United Online >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Plextalk mailing list >> Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk > > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk _______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
If you're fortunate enough to have a refreshable braille display attached to your computer, and some conversion software, then the .brf or .brl files may be read in their original braille before or instead of being printed on paper. ?furthermore, .brf (and probably .brl) are available in the full DAISY. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a certain device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the ability to do what it can. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can > read > them! I > was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other > devices do > it > and not the Plex-talk? > > John Jacques > Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC > "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" > ____________________________________________________________ > Want to place your ad here? > Advertise on United Online > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
_______________________________________________ Plextalk mailing list Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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Hi. for my part, i have the best of all worlds; the braille when I want to read by hand, the voice when I just want to relax and perhaps be lulled to sleep by my book without having to move my hands. On 7/8/2013 5:52 AM, Flor Lynch wrote:
If you're fortunate enough to have a refreshable braille display attached to your computer, and some conversion software, then the .brf or .brl files may be read in their original braille before or instead of being printed on paper. ?furthermore, .brf (and probably .brl) are available in the full DAISY.
----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Okay, I'm going to ask questions thats probably going to cause some people to wrinkle up their noses, but if you're not going to emboss from BRF or BRL files, then how is it still technically Braille? What can you get in BRL and BRF format that you can't get anywhere else. I guess I'm confused on the importance of these formats if you're not going to emboss with them.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
That's true, but that's not the Plextalk business model. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
Companies do sell products at a loss, Amazons good example of this. They make up for that loss by selling lots of content to play a read on that product.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:45 AM, "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> wrote:
Companies won't produce a product that loses money. I don't know how many units they produce but it has to be enough to make the unit profitable. They may well have a non-accessible market for the hardware with a different firmware. I don't know.
Once APH got them, probably through contract, to produce the accessibility firmware, it probably wouldn't have taken much to tweek it for their own products. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb7uengene" <kb7uengene@gmail.com> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
They probably don't, And rely on their more expense products with higher profit margins to offset the loss. If they are making profit, It would be very large.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 7:36 PM, "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> wrote:
Truth to tell, when I first got to using/exploring my Plextalk Pocket I wondered how they could make a profit on this line of products, it being to a rather limited market, etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the particular licenses involved in this situation. However, it is Plextald that licenses various products with various capabilities for it's line of products. Humanware licenses their products differently.
I suspect that when APH first contracted with Plextalk for the hardware/firmware package that became the Bookport, it said that it wanted exclusivity for the ability to read .brf and .brl books to limit competition from others using the same hardware. IRTI was selling the Pocket at the time and then Freedom Scientific got into the market. I presume APH saw this as a way to try to corner more of the market.
Plextalk didn't need to sell the exclusive license to APH, but they were trying to sell as many units as possible. With their distribution network, APH was able to extract exclusivity for their product.
It all comes down to economics not a desire to keep us from reading .brf and .brl content. These are all economic ventures that want/need to sell products to stay alive.----- Original Message -----
From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@iol.ie> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
but aren't Humanware also a competitor (with the Victor Stream, or perhaps they have a different licence obtained for their own line of products?) , and they're doing it? I think they or APH might accept payment, like. And not all .brf files are written necessarily according to the same Braille rules - they differ between countries, (UK Braille and North American Braille in english, for example, are presently different).
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifford Blackwell" <blackwell3@ameritech.net> To: "Plextalk User Discussion List" <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2013 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update?
> You said it yourself. Licensing. APH holds the license for a > certain > device and they've shown no inclination to allow a competitor the > ability to do what it can. > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John J. Jacques" <kg7fa2@juno.com> > To: <plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Plextalk] Firmware update? > > >> Hi all, I don't see the problem, since the Victor Stream can read >> them! I >> was told it was a licensing issue, but why can these other >> devices do >> it >> and not the Plex-talk? >> >> John Jacques >> Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC >> "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!" >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Want to place your ad here? >> Advertise on United Online >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/51d788ce810558ce4fb9st04duc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Plextalk mailing list >> Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk > > > _______________________________________________ > Plextalk mailing list > Plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamily.org > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/plextalk
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participants (8)
-
Aidan -
Clifford Blackwell -
Flor Lynch -
John J. Jacques -
kb7uengene -
Penny Golden -
Roger Stewart -
Russ Kiehne