- Blind-sysadmins - lists.hodgsonfamily.org

A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words
by vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca 23 May '14

23 May '14

Excellent points on appearance. I've been on several hiring boards as the only person with a vision impairment. There were times when a candidate was moved to the bottom of the queue due to their appearance. Those people could have come up with the most eloquent responses, however the sighted people on the panel could not hear anything that was being said. During the evaluation of each individuals comments would be made like who wears track pants to an interview, that person looked like they were working in the garden before coming here, may be someone should tell that person it is OK to wash their hair from time to time and so on. It is not required to always wear a suit and tie, but clean slacks/skirt and a well kempt top doesn't hurt. People have told me they have the right to wear what they want which is true. And they also have the right to ignore the culture that has formed in the places they are trying to get a job. We need to keep in mind they also have the right to hire whomever they want. So if we are not prepared to play their game; it is a challenge to get them to play our game. Often by the time someone gets to the interview it is because they have the necessary qualifications, an excellent résumé, the skills needed or whatever. By the interview stage it is often to select the best fit. I always coach people on not using generic cookie cutter résumés, show up early, because if they are running ahead of schedule moving things along is always appreciated, wear a clean outfit, scrub up a bit, be polite to the person doing the greeting in the waiting area, brush your dog, may be avoid smoking just before going in since the smell lingers on clothing, etc. BTW in Canada smoking is not a right, it is a habit. They can ask during the hiring process if the candidate is a smoker. Some of us are extraverts and some of us are introverts. In either case we might have to step out of our comfort zones and say good morning or hello. Walking in then mumbling a name then sitting down in a corner waiting to be called might achieve a different result than expected. Whether we like it or not, from time to time people on the hiring panel will ask the people in the reception area for their opinion on the first impression they received. What I have found to be helpful after an unsuccessful attempt to get another job (believe me I've had several of those) is to arrange to speak with someone responsible for hiring the person to find out what they thought I said and what they were looking for in a candidate. It isn't easy at times asking people to open up and talk about my short comings, and it may be something I don't want to hear, however it is helpful. The up side is often people are very good about letting me know what they liked as well. That gives me something on which I can build. Vic

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A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words
by vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca 23 May '14

23 May '14

Excellent points on appearance. I've been on several hiring boards as the only person with a vision impairment. There were times when a candidate was moved to the bottom of the queue due to their appearance. Those people could have come up with the most eloquent responses, however the sighted people on the panel could not hear anything that was being said. During the evaluation of each individuals comments would be made like who wears track pants to an interview, that person looked like they were working in the garden before coming here, may be someone should tell that person it is OK to wash their hair from time to time and so on. It is not required to always wear a suit and tie, but clean slacks/skirt and a well kempt top doesn't hurt. People have told me they have the right to wear what they want which is true. And they also have the right to ignore the culture that has formed in the places they are trying to get a job. We need to keep in mind they also have the right to hire whomever they want. So if we are not prepared to play their game; it is a challenge to get them to play our game. Often by the time someone gets to the interview it is because they have the necessary qualifications, an excellent résumé, the skills needed or whatever. By the interview stage it is often to select the best fit. I always coach people on not using generic cookie cutter résumés, show up early, because if they are running ahead of schedule moving things along is always appreciated, wear a clean outfit, scrub up a bit, be polite to the person doing the greeting in the waiting area, brush your dog, may be avoid smoking just before going in since the smell lingers on clothing, etc. BTW in Canada smoking is not a right, it is a habit. They can ask during the hiring process if the candidate is a smoker. Some of us are extraverts and some of us are introverts. In either case we might have to step out of our comfort zones and say good morning or hello. Walking in then mumbling a name then sitting down in a corner waiting to be called might achieve a different result than expected. Whether we like it or not, from time to time people on the hiring panel will ask the people in the reception area for their opinion on the first impression they received. What I have found to be helpful after an unsuccessful attempt to get another job (believe me I've had several of those) is to arrange to speak with someone responsible for hiring the person to find out what they thought I said and what they were looking for in a candidate. It isn't easy at times asking people to open up and talk about my short comings, and it may be something I don't want to hear, however it is helpful. The up side is often people are very good about letting me know what they liked as well. That gives me something on which I can build. Vic

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Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues
by Chris Smart 22 May '14

22 May '14

Amanda, you make excelent points about appearance, how we interact socially, etc. Often, this doesn't come up in these employment discussions, the elephant in the room as it were. We can't make eye contact, but we can at least not talk to the floor between our feet, face in the general direction of whoever we are speaking to, try to dress for whatever is expected of employees at that particular workplace, be well groomed etc. It's simple stuff like try not to smell bad, comb your hair, etc. LOL Sorry, but if you're unshaven, wearing ripped jeans and a baggy sweatshirt, with unkempt greasy hair, and if you direct your voice into the karpet while rocking back and forth vigorously, you're probably ruining the chances of any other blind folks applying at that workplace. Please don't do that. Sorry to heap on the pressure, but if you're the first blind person they've interacted with for more than a few seconds, you're helping define their idea of what blind folks are like, what we can or cannot do etc. I realize it's incredibly unfair to lump us all together as a "type" of person, but people probably think "oh they're all like that", no matter how wrong that kind of thinking actually is. Just remember they probably wouldn't hire a sighted person who didn't take care of themselves, or seem interested in the conversation either. At 12:57 PM 5/22/2014, you wrote: >Appearance does matter. I'm not saying that you have to be a >physically 'beautiful' person. But if you desire to enable others >to become more comfortable with the fact that you are different from >them, then you, no matter how much you might dislike conformance, >need to present yourself accordingly. Yes, I've already said these >things but I have met blind or legally blind persons who expect >others to accept their inappropriate dress and/or habbits. As for >addressing those issues a manager may have with how they perceive a >person who is blind or legally blind, I do often tell them that it >is ok with me if they want to ask me more specific questions. This >hass always been an ice-breaker and has resulted in positive >dialogue. I've taken tests which were presented verbally. The >issue of interfacing a screen reader with an application or site >does pose some challenges. Most corporate environments do support >Microsoft Office 2010 or higher and they could download Window-Eyes for Of > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Blind-sysadmins >[mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf >Of Scott Granados >Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:52 AM >To: Blind sysadmins list >Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues > >Being serious but here I was thinking that the hot women had the >upper hand. Seriously! In a previous job I worked in a network >planning and delivery group. When ever we went over budget we had >the smokin hot Mexican girl hit up the finance team for more >money. (Always worked) Now granted she was extremely qualified, >definitely in the top end of the intelligence scale and a superior >worker but she had the benefit of the looks to go with it. (some >have all the luck) So I guess we capitalized on the thing you're >pointing out. I also can back up your point by saying at one point I >lost over 100 LBS and things really did seem to be easier. I guess >it's thought of as some sort of discipline / sign of self control or >something. There are so many aspects of life this is true though >not just professional. I have a driver who is middle eastern so has >brown skin and looks Mexican. Unless I'm with him he's always >getting pulled over for driving while brown. California was so bad I i > > > > >On May 22, 2014, at 11:31 AM, John Heim <jheim(a)math.wisc.edu> wrote: > > > Well, yeah. Reality bites. > > > > It's just a sad fact of life. Tall, thin, white males have an easier > > time finding jobs than those who don't fit those characteristics. This > > is true independent of other factors like education, experience, etc. > > There are dozens of studies that confirm this. In fact, there are > > studies that show that even African-Americans are more likely to hire > > a white guy than a black guy. Weird, I know, but that's the human race > > for you. > > > > > > On 05/22/14 09:16, Scott Granados wrote: > >> So if my name is Leroy Jones, I way 300 lbs and thick glasses > I'm really screwed? > >> > >> :) > >> > >> On May 21, 2014, at 5:00 PM, John Heim <jheim(a)math.wisc.edu> wrote: > >> > >>> Well, sure, an employer's main concern is whether you can do the job. > >>> But there are a lot of misconceptions on what a blind person can and > >>> cannot do. Some percentage of employers are going to assume, > >>> incorrectly, that a blind person can't manage a help desk, for example. > >>> It's impossible to say what percentage of employers that is but from > >>> what I've heard on this list and others, the percentage is substantial. > >>> > >>> There have been studies that have shown that even something as > >>> innocent as having an African-American first name on your resume > >>> makes it less likely for you to be called for an interview. Other > >>> studies have shown that being over weight makes it far more > >>> difficult to get a job. So Being blind has to have some effect. Even > >>> something as simple as establishing a rapore with the interviewer is > >>> going to be harder for a blind person because it is harder to make > >>> eye contact and some people are just uncomfortable around the disabled. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 05/21/14 15:07, Lee, Amanda wrote: > >>>> I have never disclosed that I was blind prior to an > interview. I've even walked in off the street to a job fair held > by a company seeking professionals and became employed by that > company. Rarely wil you be rejected. As I said, their main > concern is can you perform and can you do the job. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Blind-sysadmins > >>>> [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf > >>>> Of John Heim > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:40 PM > >>>> To: Blind sysadmins list > >>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues > >>>> > >>>> I suspect you can get more interviews by not disclosing that > you are blind but I'm not sure that's a good thing. I went to an > interview once and when the woman who was going to interview me saw > that I was blind, she at first refused to go ahead with the > interview. I talked her into it but it was clear from the start > that I had no chance. It was just a big waste of time. I was glad > I had taken the bus to the interview because if I had taken a cab, > it would have been money thrown away for nothing. > >>>> > >>>> On the other hand, getting hired is just so much BS. It's so > much a random process. I worked for a company where the manager > threw away any resume that wasn't printed with black ink on white > paper. Send him a cream colored resume and it went immediately into > the trash. But a manager will over look almost anything if they > just like you enough. > >>>> Maybe that works in favor of not disclosing that you are > blind. Maybe you get that one interview and just happen to hit it > off with the person doing the hiring. But I think you need to get > them thinking of hiring a blind person in advance. Pique their interest. > >>>> > >>>> Employers love initiative. I think the stuff we blind people > do every day, like crossing streets, seems like a remarkable > demonstration of initiative to your typical sighted person. My > opinion is that you should play that stuff up. Not only is it fair, > it's true. I think mostblind people have no idea how often sighted > people slide by in life. > >>>> They don't care about their jobs and they are not particularly > good at them. But they show up every day and they get paid. It > almost never works out like that for blind people. The truth is > that the people on this list do have more guts and more initiative > than the average worker. > >>>> We wouldn't be here otherwise. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 05/21/14 11:59, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> I agree with you on point 1 and 2, however, I haven't really > managed to successfully complete an interview solely on my own > merit, as I knew people before coming into this current job, and > haven't been able to find anything since. I always used to make a > point of telling people about my visual impairment in a letter > before as part of the application process, but found I got more > interviews when I didn't do this. I also give people the > opportunity to ask questions about my impairment. > >>>>> > >>>>> Wishing you all the best, > >>>>> Andrew. > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Blind-sysadmins > >>>>> [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf > >>>>> Of Scott Granados > >>>>> Sent: 21 May 2014 17:56 > >>>>> To: Blind sysadmins list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Questions about employment issues > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi there, I think this is ok and on topic. I know it's been > discussed before and there have been specific discussions and even > groups formed to cover accessibility and it's impact on the work place. > >>>>> > >>>>> To answer your questions, there are no clear cut answers but > here's what my experience has been and what has worked for me. > >>>>> 1. I really don't disclose my vision status during the interview > >>>>> process until the in person happens and then obviously everyone > >>>>> figures it out really rapidly. By that point hopefully your resume > >>>>> stands for itself and that helps to ease the situation. In some > >>>>> cases recruiters who I have worked for before are familiar with my > >>>>> situation and may on their own prep the possible client of the > >>>>> situation ahead of time. This has worked out well for me and the > >>>>> issue can be dealt with in a way that the recruiter has experience > >>>>> with. (they know their customer) > >>>>> > >>>>> 2. As for the discussing how you work I like to give the > client a chance to ask questions in this area. I volunteer this > though since I'm not sure legally how much they can ask about your > disability. I find by bringing it up during the interview process > it eases concerns. Maybe bring your laptop with you and > demonstrate a screen reader and how it helps you work etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> 3. Finding people open to working with a blind engineer is > tricky. I don't know of a stock way of answering that. I'd say > that geography place a part in this. Places like San Francisco or > New England might be tending towards more integration than say > Stillwater Oklahoma. This is of course a gross generalization > though and you can find exceptions on either side. One thing I > will say is the more work I successfully complete the easier this > process gets. Now that I have over 20 years experience the clients > tend to see this first and foremost and blindness is way down the > list of things they worry about. I could be lucky though. I find > though that searching for work in places where there are a > concentrated amount of blind people can be easier. Not sure if > that helps at all but that's been my experience. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks > >>>>> Scott > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On May 21, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Jad Wauthier > <jtwauthier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I sincerely apologize if this is an inappropriate topic for this list. > >>>>>> Does anyone know of any resources like forums, other mailing > >>>>>> lists, etc which deal with issues regarding blindness and > >>>>>> employment in tech industries? I am a developer, and I have > >>>>>> always found it difficult to find employment in spite of my > ability to demonstrate my skill sets. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Some of the questions I am looking for answers to are: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1. When is the ideal time to disclose my visual limitations 2. > >>>>>> How best to approach the topic of how I work 3. How to find tech > >>>>>> companies that are comfortable working with people with a > >>>>>> different approach to interfacing with their technologies > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I realize that some questions don't have clear cut answers. I'm > >>>>>> really looking for various view points and possibly something > >>>>>> that might prove helpful in my current job search. I've had so > >>>>>> many close calls. I would appreciate any insight anyone could > >>>>>> offer. You can contact me directly if you feel comfortable doing so. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jad > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >>>>>> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >>>>>> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >>>>> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >>>>> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >>>>> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >>>>> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >>>> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >>>> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >>>> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >>>> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >>> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >>> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list > >> Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blind-sysadmins mailing list > > Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > > >_______________________________________________ >Blind-sysadmins mailing list >Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins > >_______________________________________________ >Blind-sysadmins mailing list >Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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Questions about employment issues
by Jad Wauthier 22 May '14

22 May '14

I sincerely apologize if this is an inappropriate topic for this list. Does anyone know of any resources like forums, other mailing lists, etc which deal with issues regarding blindness and employment in tech industries? I am a developer, and I have always found it difficult to find employment in spite of my ability to demonstrate my skill sets. Some of the questions I am looking for answers to are: 1. When is the ideal time to disclose my visual limitations 2. How best to approach the topic of how I work 3. How to find tech companies that are comfortable working with people with a different approach to interfacing with their technologies I realize that some questions don't have clear cut answers. I'm really looking for various view points and possibly something that might prove helpful in my current job search. I've had so many close calls. I would appreciate any insight anyone could offer. You can contact me directly if you feel comfortable doing so. Thanks. Jad

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spinrite accessibility
by David Mehler 22 May '14

22 May '14

Hello, Does anyone have a version of spinrite that will talk? I'm needing to run it on a drive that I'm really hoping is not failing, but the system has been making some unpleasant noises. Thanks. Dave.

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OT: Adjusting My Stereotypes
by vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca 22 May '14

22 May '14

Greetings Media, movies and popular television programs have helped shape my opinions of various places, Texas being one of them. We have a company in Winnipeg, Ambutech, who make mobility canes. As well as the common institutional white mobility canes they allow people to choose their own colours. Hey go figure, actually giving people a choice, but I digress. When I was speaking with one of their sales reps, one of their popular colours is pink. And the place that orders the most amount of pink coloured mobility canes is Texas. This has me revaluating the stereotypes I have formed with respect to that U. S. state. Vic Pereira Shared Services Canada/Integrated Network Services | Services partagés Canada/Services Intégrés de Réseau 400-400 St. Mary Avenue Winnipeg MB R3C 4K5 vic.pereira(a)ssc-spc.gc.ca 204-983-0653 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada

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OT: Adjusting My Stereotypes
by vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca 22 May '14

22 May '14

Greetings Media, movies and popular television programs have helped shape my opinions of various places, Texas being one of them. We have a company in Winnipeg, Ambutech, who make mobility canes. As well as the common institutional white mobility canes they allow people to choose their own colours. Hey go figure, actually giving people a choice, but I digress. When I was speaking with one of their sales reps, one of their popular colours is pink. And the place that orders the most amount of pink coloured mobility canes is Texas. This has me revaluating the stereotypes I have formed with respect to that U. S. state. Vic Pereira Shared Services Canada/Integrated Network Services | Services partagés Canada/Services Intégrés de Réseau 400-400 St. Mary Avenue Winnipeg MB R3C 4K5 vic.pereira(a)ssc-spc.gc.ca 204-983-0653 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada

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spinrite accessibility
by David Mehler 22 May '14

22 May '14

Hello, Does anyone have a version of spinrite that will talk? I'm needing to run it on a drive that I'm really hoping is not failing, but the system has been making some unpleasant noises. Thanks. Dave.

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Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anybody else interested in chiming in on my Microsoft conversations about Accessibility?
by vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca 21 May '14

21 May '14

I will not be able to join you, however if you are successful in getting MS Project, Windows Server, MS Publisher and SharePoint to be more accessible I might have to add you to my Christmas card mailing list. Thank you for taking this on. It is an amazing gesture on your part. Vic Pereira Shared Services Canada/Integrated Network Services | Services partagés Canada/Services Intégrés de Réseau 400-400 St. Mary Avenue Winnipeg MB R3C 4K5 vic.pereira(a)ssc-spc.gc.ca 204-983-0653 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: May-20-14 6:32 PM To: 'blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Anybody else interested in chiming in on my Microsoft conversations about Accessibility? Hi all, Possibly next week, I plan to call up the Microsoft Accessibility hotline and hopefully get some folks who know what they are talking about so that I can in a very systematic fashion, pour out all of the accessibility issues I see with as many products from Microsoft as possible, and I won't stop escalating the issues until every single one has a solution. Care to join me? _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anybody else interested in chiming in on my Microsoft conversations about Accessibility?
by vic.pereira＠ssc-spc.gc.ca 21 May '14

21 May '14

Now now Ryan, don't put up the barriers before doing anything. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Vic Pereira Shared Services Canada/Integrated Network Services | Services partagés Canada/Services Intégrés de Réseau 400-400 St. Mary Avenue Winnipeg MB R3C 4K5 vic.pereira(a)ssc-spc.gc.ca 204-983-0653 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Shugart Sent: May-20-14 9:19 PM To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: Re: [Blind-sysadmins] Anybody else interested in chiming in on my Microsoft conversations about Accessibility? Hi Katherine: While I admire your spirit, I'm not too sure how far that's going to get you. I've talked with the accessibility helpdesk at Microsoft, and beyond the basics of Windows and Office, they really don't know too much more about other Microsoft products at this point. It wouldn't hurt to voice your concerns, of course, but I highly doubt they'll know where to go with all of them. I've been working with our TAM and the accessibility person from the System Center/InTune team for the past few months, and its slow, but I think we're getting somewhere at least with SCCM. What I'd recommend you do is write up very specific ways to reproduce every accessibility issue you can, make sure they're reproducible, include what you expect to happen and what actually happens, then open support tickets with Microsoft. Make sure they're not screen reader issues, but genuine Microsoft issues, and my experience is Microsoft will file them as bugs. Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Blind-sysadmins [mailto:blind-sysadmins-bounces@lists.hodgsonfamily.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:32 PM To: 'blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org' Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Anybody else interested in chiming in on my Microsoft conversations about Accessibility? Hi all, Possibly next week, I plan to call up the Microsoft Accessibility hotline and hopefully get some folks who know what they are talking about so that I can in a very systematic fashion, pour out all of the accessibility issues I see with as many products from Microsoft as possible, and I won't stop escalating the issues until every single one has a solution. Care to join me? _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list Blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org http://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/listinfo/blind-sysadmins

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