- Blind-sysadmins - lists.hodgsonfamily.org

Re: Replacement for Java JRE
by Jason White 14 Feb '19

14 Feb '19

I think you can still stay on JRE 8 for a while yet, with security updates. For work purposes, I occasionally use a Java-based tool, but it’s a command line based program. I installed adoptopenjdk 11 to run it, which is under the GPL, and built from the OpenJDK sources. From: Eigeldinger Simon <simon.eigeldinger(a)hohenems.at> Reply-To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Date: Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 04:24 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Replacement for Java JRE Hi all, I guess many of you have heard that Oracle doesn't allow free usage for the Java JRE in companys anymore. We have some old web apps that still use the java plugin. Is there any alternative for that? I recently heard that Oracle hasn't open sourced the web plugin so OpenJDK needs to create their own plugin though that might take a little while. Is someone using something different now? Greetings and thanks, Simon Mit freundlichen Grüßen Simon Eigeldinger Informatik Nebengebäude 1, OG1 Stadt Hohenems Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4 6845 Hohenems T: +43 5576 7101-1143 | E: simon.eigeldinger(a)hohenems.at | www.hohenems.at Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Replacement for Java JRE
by Eigeldinger Simon 14 Feb '19

14 Feb '19

Hi all, I guess many of you have heard that Oracle doesn't allow free usage for the Java JRE in companys anymore. We have some old web apps that still use the java plugin. Is there any alternative for that? I recently heard that Oracle hasn't open sourced the web plugin so OpenJDK needs to create their own plugin though that might take a little while. Is someone using something different now? Greetings and thanks, Simon Mit freundlichen Grüßen Simon Eigeldinger Informatik Nebengebäude 1, OG1 [Hohenems_logo]Stadt Hohenems Kaiser-Franz-Josef-Straße 4 6845 Hohenems T: +43 5576 7101-1143 | E: simon.eigeldinger(a)hohenems.at | www.hohenems.at Diese Nachricht und allfällige angehängte Dokumente sind vertraulich und nur für den/die Adressaten bestimmt.

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Tool to create a website that is not a CMS
by Luke Scholey 12 Feb '19

12 Feb '19

Hi all Bit of a strange question, but does anyone know of an accessible tool, for Windows, that will allow a client of mine to create a website? She doesn’t want to use Drupal or Wordpress but still wants things like CSS to have a consistent style across the site. She only knows very basic HTML so A program where a lot of coding needs to be done won’t work either. I’ve tried a lot of programs where you’re meant to drag and drop elements but none of them work with NVDA or Jaws. It’s for a charity website, so it shouldn’t need to be that advanced, maybe a signup form for the mailing list and a contact form. Thanks for any help. Kind regards Luke Scholey -- Luke Scholey Webmaster i/c Publishing lukescholey.co.uk Tel: +44 7759 282586 Email: l.scholey(a)lukescholey.co.uk WWW.LUKESCHOLEY.CO.UK All feedback and questions welcome. The site admin can be contacted at: webmaster(a)lukescholey.co.uk All content copyright © 2012-2019 LukeScholey.co.uk Confidentiality Notice: This message and any attachments are private and confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please do not publish or copy it to anyone else. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software and then remove it from your system. Disclaimer: Although this email and attachments have been scanned for viruses, LukeScholey.co.uk accepts no liability for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this communication.

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Re: Remote Desktop in the modern age
by Andrew Hodgson 11 Feb '19

11 Feb '19

Hi, My experience with the VDI solutions is that they typically don't run using RDP directly. Users log in via a web session or using specific client software which orchestrates the creation of the desktop VM as well as set up the remote connection. It may be RDP going on somewhere at the back end but connecting via RDP straight is typically an admin only function. It is possible to get around this but that typically involves going outside the VDI solution or setting up an always on static VM somewhere else to do this. Also looking at the Azure managed desktop feature we see similar here as well, although it is possible to just set up a VM in a dedicated vnet. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org] Sent: 09 February 2019 00:45 To: Blind sysadmins list Cc: Ryan Shugart Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Remote Desktop in the modern age I agree, I think RDP/Citrix are still widely used. Many (not all) of the VDI solutions are using a fancy web interface, true, but its really just rapping around an RDP client meaning you can use traditional RDP to get in. I'm curious though, I know remote desktop is used heavily among IT pros to access servers for administration and in some cases other desktops for troubleshooting, how widely are these technologies used by rank and file employees? How many people work at companies who have gone/are going the thin client route and how has that impacted your ability to use a screen reader? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 3:26 AM To: blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote Desktop in the modern age Hi, The recent discussions on here for remote desktop have lead me to ask this question. Are the remote desktop protocols used today giving enough in accessibility? I know we have RDP and Citrix capabilities, but to be honest I have seen very few Citrix implementations these days, and more and more is being done with custom web plugins, especially in the VDI space. What potential options do we have going forward, are the current access methods likely to become outdated and who was responsible/is now responsible for maintaining the access via the new protocols? Discuss. Andrew. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Re: Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch?
by Zameer Mahomed 10 Feb '19

10 Feb '19

Hi Katherine, Just out of interest, were you able to get ESXi up and running by yourself? If yes, what would be the best way to go about installing it? Kind Regards -----Original Message----- From: Katherine M. Moss via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, 10 February 2019 10:57 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Cc: Katherine M. Moss <KMoss(a)WinterHillSolutions.com> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch? RAS is your best bet; VMware, at least in my experience, will eventually screw you over. The server edition of ESXi, at least, does. You're hit a licensing limit that won't let you set up any VMs; my group tried it. -----Original Message----- From: Zameer Mahomed <core7xx(a)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 3:14 PM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch? Hi Katherine, Thanks for the reply. Yeah, my searches have lead me to suggestions where people have RAS installed on a dedicated vm for this sort of thing. Funny enough, when I used VMware, I havent bothered with this connectivity issue as it took care of it for me. Kind Regards -----Original Message----- From: Katherine M. Moss via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, 10 February 2019 9:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Cc: Katherine M. Moss <KMoss(a)WinterHillSolutions.com> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch? Sounds like you need a router to serve as the gateway; if you're behind a NAT interface, then, you'll need something to get you onto the internet. You'l have to use RAS as a router only to do that. I've not looked at this in a long time, but that's the basic principle. -----Original Message----- From: Zameer Mahomed <core7xx(a)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:00 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch? Hi Listers, for those of you using Hyper-V, My scenario is that I would like to have an internal switch but have this switch connected to the Internet. I understand this is possible via NAT. I am currently using Windows 10 enterprise, build 1803. Using powershell, I have done the following: New-VMSwitch -SwitchName Internal -SwitchType Internal the interface index of the switch I just created is 33. New-NetIPAddress -IPAddress 10.10.4.1 -PrefixLength 22 -InterfaceIndex 33 New-NetNat -Name External -InternalIPInterfaceAddressPrefix 10.10.4.0/22 I've gone in to the settings of a VM under network adapter, and selected the name of the switch I created earlier. I've also assigned the vm a static IP address and used 10.10.4.1 which I created earlier for the gateway. However, I am still unable to access the Internet. I am able to access other vm's and the host. Your help would be much appreciated please? Kind Regards Kind Regards _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Re: Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch?
by Zameer Mahomed 10 Feb '19

10 Feb '19

Hi Katherine, Thanks for the reply. Yeah, my searches have lead me to suggestions where people have RAS installed on a dedicated vm for this sort of thing. Funny enough, when I used VMware, I havent bothered with this connectivity issue as it took care of it for me. Kind Regards -----Original Message----- From: Katherine M. Moss via Blind-sysadmins <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Sent: Sunday, 10 February 2019 9:00 PM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Cc: Katherine M. Moss <KMoss(a)WinterHillSolutions.com> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch? Sounds like you need a router to serve as the gateway; if you're behind a NAT interface, then, you'll need something to get you onto the internet. You'l have to use RAS as a router only to do that. I've not looked at this in a long time, but that's the basic principle. -----Original Message----- From: Zameer Mahomed <core7xx(a)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:00 AM To: 'Blind sysadmins list' <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch? Hi Listers, for those of you using Hyper-V, My scenario is that I would like to have an internal switch but have this switch connected to the Internet. I understand this is possible via NAT. I am currently using Windows 10 enterprise, build 1803. Using powershell, I have done the following: New-VMSwitch -SwitchName Internal -SwitchType Internal the interface index of the switch I just created is 33. New-NetIPAddress -IPAddress 10.10.4.1 -PrefixLength 22 -InterfaceIndex 33 New-NetNat -Name External -InternalIPInterfaceAddressPrefix 10.10.4.0/22 I've gone in to the settings of a VM under network adapter, and selected the name of the switch I created earlier. I've also assigned the vm a static IP address and used 10.10.4.1 which I created earlier for the gateway. However, I am still unable to access the Internet. I am able to access other vm's and the host. Your help would be much appreciated please? Kind Regards Kind Regards _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Hyper-v: Internet on an internal switch?
by Zameer Mahomed 10 Feb '19

10 Feb '19

Hi Listers, for those of you using Hyper-V, My scenario is that I would like to have an internal switch but have this switch connected to the Internet. I understand this is possible via NAT. I am currently using Windows 10 enterprise, build 1803. Using powershell, I have done the following: New-VMSwitch -SwitchName Internal -SwitchType Internal the interface index of the switch I just created is 33. New-NetIPAddress -IPAddress 10.10.4.1 -PrefixLength 22 -InterfaceIndex 33 New-NetNat -Name External -InternalIPInterfaceAddressPrefix 10.10.4.0/22 I've gone in to the settings of a VM under network adapter, and selected the name of the switch I created earlier. I've also assigned the vm a static IP address and used 10.10.4.1 which I created earlier for the gateway. However, I am still unable to access the Internet. I am able to access other vm's and the host. Your help would be much appreciated please? Kind Regards Kind Regards

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Re: Remote Desktop in the modern age
by Ryan Shugart 09 Feb '19

09 Feb '19

I agree, I think RDP/Citrix are still widely used. Many (not all) of the VDI solutions are using a fancy web interface, true, but its really just rapping around an RDP client meaning you can use traditional RDP to get in. I'm curious though, I know remote desktop is used heavily among IT pros to access servers for administration and in some cases other desktops for troubleshooting, how widely are these technologies used by rank and file employees? How many people work at companies who have gone/are going the thin client route and how has that impacted your ability to use a screen reader? Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 3:26 AM To: blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Remote Desktop in the modern age Hi, The recent discussions on here for remote desktop have lead me to ask this question. Are the remote desktop protocols used today giving enough in accessibility? I know we have RDP and Citrix capabilities, but to be honest I have seen very few Citrix implementations these days, and more and more is being done with custom web plugins, especially in the VDI space. What potential options do we have going forward, are the current access methods likely to become outdated and who was responsible/is now responsible for maintaining the access via the new protocols? Discuss. Andrew. _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Re: seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code
by Jason White 08 Feb '19

08 Feb '19

I generally work from the command line anyway, using git diff, and would recommend it. I find the GitHub table-based diffs harder to read. On 2/8/19 9:52 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Hi, > > I am interested in the little more quicker to look at option as I think personally that anything else in relation to code may make us miss something especially if it is not obvious. Unfortunately if you view a diff in Github or Visual Studio, the changes are highlighted and can be easily seen, but even then it only works for a small subset of changes - anything large and people start complaining that they can't tell the differences easily. > > I do a Git diff on a specific commit myself and find that works well, though it probably isn't quicker than a sighted person looking at the diff in a pull request. I find it especially irritating when people do comments in PRs, as it can be a right mare to try and find the correct line the comment is refering to, then reply to the comment in context. > > Andrew. > > ________________________________________ > From: Jason White via Blind-sysadmins [blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org] > Sent: 08 February 2019 13:07 > To: Blind sysadmins list > Cc: Chamandeep Singh Grover; Jason White > Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code > > If you're working with a document rather than lines of code in Git, you can always use word-diff, which shows the differences word by word rather than line by line. It can also take account of the syntax of the source file (e.g., TeX/LaTeX). > > On 2/8/19, 04:54, "Chamandeep Singh Grover via Blind-sysadmins" <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> wrote: > > Hi, > Thank you for your advice everyone. > I tried the diff command and created the patch. This looks just like > what I use to do with SVN, by using the show unified diff option. > This solution works, but i'm looking for something else which may be a > little more faster to look at. > > Kind regards, > Chamandeep singh Grover > > On 1/21/19, Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for the details here - this is something I have struggled with a lot > > recently especially given the comments section in pull requests on specific > > lines of code. I usually end up messing something down the line because of > > this. I used Github before and it was bearly ok, but VSTS really isn't > > helpful in this regard at the moment. > > > > Andrew. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jared Stofflett <stofflet(a)gmail.com> > > Sent: 21 January 2019 20:25 > > To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > > Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code > > > > I use Bitbucket at work as well. After a pull request is open from the > > command-line I do the following git checkout develop git pull develop (these > > two commands insure I have the latest stable code for comparison.) git > > checkout pullrequestbranch git format-patch develop These last two commands > > will grab the code associated with a pull request, and for each commit not > > already in develop a patch file will be created with the differences between > > develop and the commit that has not been merged into develop. > > > > On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:50 AM Jason White via Blind-sysadmins < > > blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> wrote: > > > >> I usually just run "git diff" from the shell, specifying the desired > >> revision or revisions, then review the output with my braille display. > >> > >> If it's a document rather than code, I use the --word-diff option. You > >> can also specify the desired syntax for word-diff, which is helpful if > >> you write LaTeX documents, as I do. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Chamandeep Singh Grover via Blind-sysadmins > >> <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > >> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 8:16 AM > >> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > >> Cc: Chamandeep Singh Grover <cmusic789(a)googlemail.com> > >> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> We have recently migrated over to git and using bitbucket. I am using > >> Jaws with Eclipse at the moment as my ide. > >> I wanted to ask for peoples' advice on carrying out code reviews and > >> seeing the differences between code versions. > >> > >> I am happy to try out a new ide such as visual studio code if it has > >> worked well for some people, but it is quite difficult at the moment > >> to understand the changes. > >> Previously when using SVN, I had this linked up with code compare, > >> which worked some what to alert changes. > >> > >> Any help/advice would be appreciated. > >> > >> Thank you > >> Chamandeep Singh Grover > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- > >> blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to > >> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- > >> blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to > >> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Re: seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code
by Chamandeep Singh Grover 08 Feb '19

08 Feb '19

Hi, Thank you for your advice everyone. I tried the diff command and created the patch. This looks just like what I use to do with SVN, by using the show unified diff option. This solution works, but i'm looking for something else which may be a little more faster to look at. Kind regards, Chamandeep singh Grover On 1/21/19, Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for the details here - this is something I have struggled with a lot > recently especially given the comments section in pull requests on specific > lines of code. I usually end up messing something down the line because of > this. I used Github before and it was bearly ok, but VSTS really isn't > helpful in this regard at the moment. > > Andrew. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jared Stofflett <stofflet(a)gmail.com> > Sent: 21 January 2019 20:25 > To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code > > I use Bitbucket at work as well. After a pull request is open from the > command-line I do the following git checkout develop git pull develop (these > two commands insure I have the latest stable code for comparison.) git > checkout pullrequestbranch git format-patch develop These last two commands > will grab the code associated with a pull request, and for each commit not > already in develop a patch file will be created with the differences between > develop and the commit that has not been merged into develop. > > On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 9:50 AM Jason White via Blind-sysadmins < > blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> wrote: > >> I usually just run "git diff" from the shell, specifying the desired >> revision or revisions, then review the output with my braille display. >> >> If it's a document rather than code, I use the --word-diff option. You >> can also specify the desired syntax for word-diff, which is helpful if >> you write LaTeX documents, as I do. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chamandeep Singh Grover via Blind-sysadmins >> <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 8:16 AM >> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >> Cc: Chamandeep Singh Grover <cmusic789(a)googlemail.com> >> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] seeing dcode differnces and reviewing code >> >> Hi All, >> >> We have recently migrated over to git and using bitbucket. I am using >> Jaws with Eclipse at the moment as my ide. >> I wanted to ask for peoples' advice on carrying out code reviews and >> seeing the differences between code versions. >> >> I am happy to try out a new ide such as visual studio code if it has >> worked well for some people, but it is quite difficult at the moment >> to understand the changes. >> Previously when using SVN, I had this linked up with code compare, >> which worked some what to alert changes. >> >> Any help/advice would be appreciated. >> >> Thank you >> Chamandeep Singh Grover >> _______________________________________________ >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- >> blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- >> blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >

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