- Blind-sysadmins - lists.hodgsonfamily.org

BT business hub logs for turning on and off
by Chamandeep Singh Grover 28 Apr '19

28 Apr '19

Hi All, I am looking at a BT business hub here in the UK and I wanted to find out when this router has been manually turned off and back on again. I have just reviewed the event logs, but there does not seem to be any clear indication of this information. Does anyone have any thoughts on how I can find this information? Kind regards, Chamandeep Singh Grover

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JAWS is not responsive on the browser after using NVDA
by Anatoliy Shudrya 14 Apr '19

14 Apr '19

Hello everyone, Probably not a sys admin topic, sorry. I have tried posting this to the JAWS list but maybe admins use different screen readers more often and can relate. I have been long time user of JAWS and it seams to me that the problem that I experience started with the latest windows and latest browsers. JAWS would stop reading anything on the browser after I make a switch from different screen reader such as NVDA. I am visually impaired and use both screen readers to navigate on the webpages. Sometimes NVDA would read things that JAWS won't and vice versa. So, for example in the middle of my cession on the web browser, I would decide to switch to NVDA, turn off JAWS, turn on NVDA, get my business done with NVDA and then turn on JAWS back again. After this series of steps JAWS would not read browser window no matter what, the only way to have JAWS read the browser window is to close it down and restart it. Many times it is impossible because I am in the middle of application fill out, purchase order or configuration page. I have tried to refresh the page, using insert escape to no avail. Using tab won't help as well. Tried to turn off and turn on JAWS several times, still no luck. Has anybody experienced similar kind of behavior with JAWS? Is there any trick getting it back to read? I get this with Chrome, Internet Explore and Firefox. Latest Win 10 Pro. OS and latest browsers. Also noticed that it happens often on the heavy coded pages with lots of JAWA code and forms. Any help appreciated. Anatoliy

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Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019.
by philrigby62＠gmail.com 18 Mar '19

18 Mar '19

Just to back up what Andrew is saying here, the company I work for, Atos, has around 200,000 employees worldwide and is a tier 1 IT services company. Over the last couple of years it has dispensed with all on-premise Exchange servers and is fully using Office 365 now. Phil. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> Sent: 18 March 2019 11:55 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Hi, Exchange 2019 and above are really being targeted now at large MSPs and large businesses who have the budget to increase memory etc. Seriously I would look at going with Office365, the large 3 companies I have worked for who have thousands of employees all use it. Is there any specific reason you aren't using Office365? I know we were all burned to some extent with Simply Mail Solutions. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: George Bell [george(a)techno-vision.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2019 10:21 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Although I doubt too many will yet be involved in installing Windows Server 2019, it might be appropriate here to warn you of a nasty mess I created for ourselves my not doing enough research. As our current Exchange 2016 mail server's hardware was quite old, I decided it was time to replace it with the same Make and Model as our Domain Controller, a DELL R330 purchased just over a year ago. I made it clear to Dell that we were going to install the latest version of both Op. System and Exchange. However, the latest model was an R340. Server arrived, and with DELL's excellent tech support, hardware was configured for RAID etc., and Op System installed. However, installation of Exchange 2019 presented us with problems, and consequently we found that where 2016's recommended minimum was 8 GB of RAM, 2019 required 128 GB. A massive 16 fold increase. But the server's maximum was only 64 GB. OK, so implement plan B, which research proved was an easier being a like for like installation of Exchange 2016. Again problems during installation, so on to Microsoft support. Bombshell there. Exchange 2016 is not supported on Server 2019. Those who know me, can imagine the verbiage I uttered!!!! And to make matters worse, DELL did not apparently know of this issue as they admitted they had not yet been fully trained in this area. So finally we have had to go through the whole installation process again, but that saga is for another day. At least mail if flowing again. Warning to self. Make sure our requirements are clearly stated, at the absolute very least in an e-mail, and confirmed by the supplier. George _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019.
by Katherine M. Moss 18 Mar '19

18 Mar '19

I can speak from experience. The Exchange-only licensing schemes are very good for small groups. Mine happens to use Office 365 Business essentials, though. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 8:47 AM To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Hi, You could always just go with the Exchange portions of Office365, you don't need to go with the whole shebang. It depends on what you want to use Office365 licenses for, I agree if you are testing multiple versions of Office then the Office licenses aren't probably the best fit. Also you can still run your DC in office using Server 2019, and this can then be synced to the Azure Active Directory for password sync etc. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: George Bell [george(a)techno-vision.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2019 12:39 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. It's a good point, Andrew, but unfortunately we have to be able to test out software on a variety of platforms. In this particular case for example, will the network version of Duxbury work on Windows Server 2019? Likewise with Office 365, but we also need to check out the likes of Word 2019, hence that is installed on some systems here. George -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> Sent: 18 March 2019 11:55 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Hi, Exchange 2019 and above are really being targeted now at large MSPs and large businesses who have the budget to increase memory etc. Seriously I would look at going with Office365, the large 3 companies I have worked for who have thousands of employees all use it. Is there any specific reason you aren't using Office365? I know we were all burned to some extent with Simply Mail Solutions. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: George Bell [george(a)techno-vision.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2019 10:21 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Although I doubt too many will yet be involved in installing Windows Server 2019, it might be appropriate here to warn you of a nasty mess I created for ourselves my not doing enough research. As our current Exchange 2016 mail server's hardware was quite old, I decided it was time to replace it with the same Make and Model as our Domain Controller, a DELL R330 purchased just over a year ago. I made it clear to Dell that we were going to install the latest version of both Op. System and Exchange. However, the latest model was an R340. Server arrived, and with DELL's excellent tech support, hardware was configured for RAID etc., and Op System installed. However, installation of Exchange 2019 presented us with problems, and consequently we found that where 2016's recommended minimum was 8 GB of RAM, 2019 required 128 GB. A massive 16 fold increase. But the server's maximum was only 64 GB. OK, so implement plan B, which research proved was an easier being a like for like installation of Exchange 2016. Again problems during installation, so on to Microsoft support. Bombshell there. Exchange 2016 is not supported on Server 2019. Those who know me, can imagine the verbiage I uttered!!!! And to make matters worse, DELL did not apparently know of this issue as they admitted they had not yet been fully trained in this area. So finally we have had to go through the whole installation process again, but that saga is for another day. At least mail if flowing again. Warning to self. Make sure our requirements are clearly stated, at the absolute very least in an e-mail, and confirmed by the supplier. George _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019.
by George Bell 18 Mar '19

18 Mar '19

It's a good point, Andrew, but unfortunately we have to be able to test out software on a variety of platforms. In this particular case for example, will the network version of Duxbury work on Windows Server 2019? Likewise with Office 365, but we also need to check out the likes of Word 2019, hence that is installed on some systems here. George -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> Sent: 18 March 2019 11:55 To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Hi, Exchange 2019 and above are really being targeted now at large MSPs and large businesses who have the budget to increase memory etc. Seriously I would look at going with Office365, the large 3 companies I have worked for who have thousands of employees all use it. Is there any specific reason you aren't using Office365? I know we were all burned to some extent with Simply Mail Solutions. Andrew. ________________________________________ From: George Bell [george(a)techno-vision.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2019 10:21 To: Blind sysadmins list Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019. Although I doubt too many will yet be involved in installing Windows Server 2019, it might be appropriate here to warn you of a nasty mess I created for ourselves my not doing enough research. As our current Exchange 2016 mail server's hardware was quite old, I decided it was time to replace it with the same Make and Model as our Domain Controller, a DELL R330 purchased just over a year ago. I made it clear to Dell that we were going to install the latest version of both Op. System and Exchange. However, the latest model was an R340. Server arrived, and with DELL's excellent tech support, hardware was configured for RAID etc., and Op System installed. However, installation of Exchange 2019 presented us with problems, and consequently we found that where 2016's recommended minimum was 8 GB of RAM, 2019 required 128 GB. A massive 16 fold increase. But the server's maximum was only 64 GB. OK, so implement plan B, which research proved was an easier being a like for like installation of Exchange 2016. Again problems during installation, so on to Microsoft support. Bombshell there. Exchange 2016 is not supported on Server 2019. Those who know me, can imagine the verbiage I uttered!!!! And to make matters worse, DELL did not apparently know of this issue as they admitted they had not yet been fully trained in this area. So finally we have had to go through the whole installation process again, but that saga is for another day. At least mail if flowing again. Warning to self. Make sure our requirements are clearly stated, at the absolute very least in an e-mail, and confirmed by the supplier. George _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org _______________________________________________ Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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Windows Server 2019 and Exchange 2019.
by George Bell 18 Mar '19

18 Mar '19

Although I doubt too many will yet be involved in installing Windows Server 2019, it might be appropriate here to warn you of a nasty mess I created for ourselves my not doing enough research. As our current Exchange 2016 mail server's hardware was quite old, I decided it was time to replace it with the same Make and Model as our Domain Controller, a DELL R330 purchased just over a year ago. I made it clear to Dell that we were going to install the latest version of both Op. System and Exchange. However, the latest model was an R340. Server arrived, and with DELL's excellent tech support, hardware was configured for RAID etc., and Op System installed. However, installation of Exchange 2019 presented us with problems, and consequently we found that where 2016's recommended minimum was 8 GB of RAM, 2019 required 128 GB. A massive 16 fold increase. But the server's maximum was only 64 GB. OK, so implement plan B, which research proved was an easier being a like for like installation of Exchange 2016. Again problems during installation, so on to Microsoft support. Bombshell there. Exchange 2016 is not supported on Server 2019. Those who know me, can imagine the verbiage I uttered!!!! And to make matters worse, DELL did not apparently know of this issue as they admitted they had not yet been fully trained in this area. So finally we have had to go through the whole installation process again, but that saga is for another day. At least mail if flowing again. Warning to self. Make sure our requirements are clearly stated, at the absolute very least in an e-mail, and confirmed by the supplier. George

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winPE environment audio clues
by Oscar Corella 14 Mar '19

14 Mar '19

Hi I am using WinPE to image computers and I would like to get the computer to give me an audio clue when the imae is finished installing and is ready to be restarted. Does anyone know of a command to get the computer to beep that can be called from a bat file? thanks

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Re: VMware ESXi administration
by John G Heim 08 Mar '19

08 Mar '19

The semi-defunct International Association Of Visually Impaired Techcnologists was working with VMWare on accessibility at one time. VMWare itself was very supportive. They gave us $10,000 and a couple of VMWare ESXI licenses to use on a test platform. That project fell apart for several reasons. One of the biggest was lack of interest from blind VMWare admins. But that might have been due in part to the way our contact at VMWare kind of took over the project. He clearly meant well but he seemed to feel it was his project. When you donate money, you can't dictate how it is spent. It's both illegal and unethical. I think if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't accept the money. I don't know -- a non-profit turning down $10K? You can't do that. Another thing I could have done is to go over the guy's head. I didn't want to get him in trouble though. PS: I am calling IAVIT semi-defunct because the board alredy voted to dissolve it. It hasn't happened yet because some people emailed me asking if it could be saved. That was months ago and I still haven't made up my mind what to do. On 2/27/19 10:39 AM, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote:> Hi: > Do you know what version of ESXI/VCenter you'll be managing? Its been years since I was a VMWare administrator, but when I was the VSphere client would automatically upgrade itself when it connected to a newer VCenter server or ESXI host than it was designed for, and I know VMWare is really pushing the HTML5 client. > Just being honest here, VMWare has a long way to go as far as being accessible goes. Their Workstation product is really good, but their server products leave a lot to be desired. I never had really good luck working with them on accessibility either, they were not very responsive, that was a long time ago though so it may be worth trying to reengage them. I definitely recommend looking at Powershell and the PowerCLI as you can do many things with that. However, if you need to use a lot of other VMWare products such as site recovery manager, you'll be out of luck. I can't really recommend a blind person build a career on VMWare administration for this reason, beyond the basics you won't be able to do much as a lot of the power of VMWare comes with their supporting products beyond ESXI/Vcenter. > Ryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Can Kırca <cankirca(a)gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:32 AM > To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: VMware ESXi administration > > Sure, you can download from the following link that I mentioned: > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvspherecli… > > Best. > > 2019-02-27 16:27 GMT+03:00, Chris Nestrud <ccn(a)chrisnestrud.com>: >> Thank you both for this information. >> >> If you've found a particularly usable client, I'd appreciate knowing how to >> locate it. >> >> Chris >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 08:37:13AM +0300, Can K??rca wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Some versions are not, but VSphere client 6 is mostly accessible to do >>> following tasks: >>> Brows datastores and run all file/folder commands, Create virtual >>> machine, edit/update virtual machine, manage snapshots and related >>> commands, configure remote applications like SSH/SNMP, manage power, >>> read tasks status and so on. >>> If you want, I can share the client that I'm using. >>> >>> Best. >>> >>> 2019-02-27 2:33 GMT+03:00, kprescott(a)coolip.net <kprescott(a)coolip.net>: >>>> If you manage with VCenter, use powershell with PowerCLI >>>> That works wonderfully for me. >>>> I use both powershell on Windows, and powershell on my Ubuntu Linux >>>> machine. >>>> There are good tutorials on PowerCLI. >>>> The html5 interface is almost useless. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Chris Nestrud <ccn(a)chrisnestrud.com> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 4:44 PM >>>> To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> >>>> Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] VMware ESXi administration >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I'd appreciate any information on accessible administration of VMware >>>> ESXi >>>> servers. Creating and destroying VMs, monitoring status, etc. I >>>> understand >>>> that accessing VM consoles is probably not accessible. The ESXi VPAT >>>> suggests that the HTML5 client is not accessible, so I'm hoping that >>>> someone >>>> has found an alternative. I do not need to be able to install the ESXi >>>> server; another team will be responsible for that piece. >>>> Thanks in advance for any information. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Can K??rca >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org >> > >

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Accessible file replication software
by Luke Scholey 01 Mar '19

01 Mar '19

Hi all Does anyone know of a file replication tool for windows that works well with NVDA? I’m moving my mail server onto a new server and will need both servers to have the same data on whilst the DNS info switches over. I’ve tried freefilesync but it’s not great. Before I go trawling through other programs I thought I’d ask here. Thanks for any suggestions Luke -- Luke Scholey Webmaster i/c Publishing lukescholey.co.uk Tel: +44 7759 282586 Email: l.scholey(a)lukescholey.co.uk WWW.LUKESCHOLEY.CO.UK All feedback and questions welcome. The site admin can be contacted at: webmaster(a)lukescholey.co.uk All content copyright © 2012-2019 LukeScholey.co.uk Confidentiality Notice: This message and any attachments are private and confidential and may be subject to legal privilege and copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please do not publish or copy it to anyone else. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software and then remove it from your system. Disclaimer: Although this email and attachments have been scanned for viruses, LukeScholey.co.uk accepts no liability for any loss or damage arising from the receipt or use of this communication.

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Re: VMware ESXi administration
by Chris Nestrud 27 Feb '19

27 Feb '19

Ryan, I assume it's the latest version of ESXI. Truthfully, I just found that we're embarking down this path, so I have some learning ahead. I have not previously used this product. There is a separate team with VMWare expertise that can answer questions not having to do with accessibility, and I should be able to trade off any truly inaccessible tasks within my team. Of course I'd like to minimize the need for this, so I'll be taking a look at PowerCLI. Chris On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 04:39:48PM +0000, Ryan Shugart via Blind-sysadmins wrote: > Hi: > Do you know what version of ESXI/VCenter you'll be managing? Its been years since I was a VMWare administrator, but when I was the VSphere client would automatically upgrade itself when it connected to a newer VCenter server or ESXI host than it was designed for, and I know VMWare is really pushing the HTML5 client. > Just being honest here, VMWare has a long way to go as far as being accessible goes. Their Workstation product is really good, but their server products leave a lot to be desired. I never had really good luck working with them on accessibility either, they were not very responsive, that was a long time ago though so it may be worth trying to reengage them. I definitely recommend looking at Powershell and the PowerCLI as you can do many things with that. However, if you need to use a lot of other VMWare products such as site recovery manager, you'll be out of luck. I can't really recommend a blind person build a career on VMWare administration for this reason, beyond the basics you won't be able to do much as a lot of the power of VMWare comes with their supporting products beyond ESXI/Vcenter. > Ryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Can K??rca <cankirca(a)gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:32 AM > To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] Re: VMware ESXi administration > > Sure, you can download from the following link that I mentioned: > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvspherecli… > > Best. > > 2019-02-27 16:27 GMT+03:00, Chris Nestrud <ccn(a)chrisnestrud.com>: > > Thank you both for this information. > > > > If you've found a particularly usable client, I'd appreciate knowing how to > > locate it. > > > > Chris > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 08:37:13AM +0300, Can K??rca wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> Some versions are not, but VSphere client 6 is mostly accessible to do > >> following tasks: > >> Brows datastores and run all file/folder commands, Create virtual > >> machine, edit/update virtual machine, manage snapshots and related > >> commands, configure remote applications like SSH/SNMP, manage power, > >> read tasks status and so on. > >> If you want, I can share the client that I'm using. > >> > >> Best. > >> > >> 2019-02-27 2:33 GMT+03:00, kprescott(a)coolip.net <kprescott(a)coolip.net>: > >> > If you manage with VCenter, use powershell with PowerCLI > >> > That works wonderfully for me. > >> > I use both powershell on Windows, and powershell on my Ubuntu Linux > >> > machine. > >> > There are good tutorials on PowerCLI. > >> > The html5 interface is almost useless. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Chris Nestrud <ccn(a)chrisnestrud.com> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 4:44 PM > >> > To: Blind sysadmins list <blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org> > >> > Subject: [Blind-sysadmins] VMware ESXi administration > >> > > >> > Hello all, > >> > > >> > I'd appreciate any information on accessible administration of VMware > >> > ESXi > >> > servers. Creating and destroying VMs, monitoring status, etc. I > >> > understand > >> > that accessing VM consoles is probably not accessible. The ESXi VPAT > >> > suggests that the HTML5 client is not accessible, so I'm hoping that > >> > someone > >> > has found an alternative. I do not need to be able to install the ESXi > >> > server; another team will be responsible for that piece. > >> > Thanks in advance for any information. > >> > > >> > Chris > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> > To unsubscribe send an email to > >> > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> > To unsubscribe send an email to > >> > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Can K??rca > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to > >> blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > > > > > -- > Can K??rca > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > _______________________________________________ > Blind-sysadmins mailing list -- blind-sysadmins(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org > To unsubscribe send an email to blind-sysadmins-leave(a)lists.hodgsonfamily.org

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